MTV's The Real World Guy and DEI Hiring
- Thread starter Conrad
- Start date
phill1174
Well-Known Member
No…but who do you know that’s getting hired at a part 121 carrier with an asinine amount of failures? The boogeyman that you and others think is there isn’t.
Maybe Duffy could do something more constructive if he had the experience to hold the position he does. I have a laundry list of things for him to tackle.
It's the straw man to keep what's left of his ridiculous base feeding on some philosophical red meat.
No one is getting hired at a decent airline with a boat load of failures. Yet again, he's speaking out of pocket on issues he knows little of.
phill1174
Well-Known Member
Let’s just let him be loud and wrong on Presidents’ Day. It’s fitting for the current climate.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
I've got to admit I agree here. Throughout the years I've run across forum posts where someone (and often someone's spouse) says something like "I've had four checkride failures, do you think I still has a chance to get hired by XYZ?" or "which regional has the easiest training?"
Inevitably the pilot community offers advice and inspiration but seldom does someone say "hey, this job isn't for everyone" "if you love aviation but flying isn't your thing have you considered dispatch? Or ATC? Or maintenance?"
We've all flown with people who we wondered how they got past primary training much less airline training. They can't land on the centerline or don't understand the systems or are clearly operating at the rote level. Just as I believe there should be high barriers to entry into this profession, there should also be backstops to prevent someone who lacks the aptitude from continuing on in perpetuity. Everybody has a bad checkride from time to time. But multiple failures in primary training should be a yellow flag. Multiple failures in 121 should be a red flag. Hard stop.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
It is just perfect to hear someone that has never been part of a training department, recruiting, HR or any other capacity relating to making hiring decision tell the people who currently are and have been involved in such decisions how to do their jobs.
Like I said before, this forum's most prolific Dunning-Krueger.
Like I said before, this forum's most prolific Dunning-Krueger.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
The sooner we recognize that Bondi is Drumpf's Ghislaine Maxwell equivalent the clearer her actions become. She has been by his side for decades and is deeply involved in all things pedo-related.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
is this just a left wing version of QAnon style conspiracism or is it supported by the evidence? I haven’t paid that much attention since there’s so much other garbage from the administration.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Have folks like that been making it through 121 hiring and training the last few years? I honestly have no idea, since i obviously wouldn’t be the one flying with them. I guess I’ve had the occasional captain slide in a remark about how it’s nice to have someone who knows how to fly, or say something about being well ahead of my peers, but captains say all kinds of things so I kind of haven’t paid too much attention.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Show me one example of somebody failing an initial 4 times at a company, and being given another chance and pushed through. If you show me that, I will resign from AS.
BTW, you can fail USMLE, and after 4 times you are banned from taking that specific medical license; you can pivot to another medical path. There's always a way...
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Freaking YEP
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I think the reality we see now is what we have always seen to an extent. Companies continually change hiring metrics or change their hiring processes. That being said, Delta has been, and is in many ways, still the most scrutinizing and picky airline when it comes to hiring. On the other end of that spectrum, you have places like Mesa, or certain ACMIs that would hire a dead corpse if it could fill a seat. Then you have everywhere in between. Checkride failures are a component of every major airline hiring process.
You are an above-average pilot by every stretch. I have flown with FOs that have either had an off day, or are simply average, or even somebody who barely makes the minimum. Hell, there are CAs that fall into that same category, and I have my off days and fly like crap too. But again, we are all meeting the standard, or exceeding it.
CAs making comments like that might be onto something, maybe that FO is performing poorly. My question when somebody makes statements like that is ok great, what did pro standards say? "Oh, I didn't wanna do that". Oh, so you just wanna bitch and moan about it, but you don't actually care. It isn't actually unsafe. You just wanna be an ass about it and complain...
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Well not initial. I mean someone like that Colgan CA. Fail a private/instrument. Then fail the Comm. Then hired at a regional and fail initial Saab 340. Them next year recurrent, fail. And next year recurrent fail. That’s 5. Literally every checking event that ever came, this individual failed. And re-trained to pass.
“Properly certificated and qualified.”
Should not have been driving a car, let alone flying a plane.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I agree.
I started a thread about Ravn interview prep gloating how they got a guy with 4 ***Part 121*** checkride failures hired onto a legacy.
Gee thanks for bringing that into a seat for us CAs to deal with.
Not 4 primary failures, four 121 checkride failures! Revoke their certs and tell them they’re lucky they allowed to drive a car.
4 (four separate) Part 121 failures? You shouldn’t touch another 121 cockpit ever again.
Captains deserve better than a crap FO who fails that many times at a 121 airline. And most importantly, the flying public deserves better.
Captains deserve better than a crap FO who fails that many times at a 121 airline. And most importantly, the flying public deserves better.
Attachments
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mmmmmm wine
They were both properly certificated and qualified. On the notion of whether they were qualified or not, they were. It's not even something you can argue. Now if you wanna have the conversation of changes that can be made, this is where PRIA comes in. I don't disagree with yo that a bigger picture on somebody's record isn't a bad idea, but that's a dangerous path to walk down. Over the course of 25 years, somebody fails 5 events, does that really make them a basket case? Maybe, maybe not...
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
By that, anyone who’s ever crashed was properly certificated and qualified. Unless some cases in the Corpie world. But 121, they’re all “certificated and qualified.”
My point is that phrase loses meaning when anyone is allowed an unlimited amount of times to pass.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
I agree.
I started a thread about Ravn interview prep gloating how they got a guy with 4 ***Part 121*** checkride failures hired onto a legacy.
Gee thanks for bringing that into a seat for us CAs to deal with.
Not 4 primary failures, four 121 checkride failures! Revoke their certs and tell them they’re lucky they allowed to drive a car.
4 (four separate) Part 121 failures? You shouldn’t touch another 121 cockpit ever again.
Captains deserve better than a crap FO who fails that many times at a 121 airline. And most importantly, the flying public deserves better.
This is real boomer stuff.
I don't know how old you are, but you are neither qualified nor informed enough to know the context of any of that. Again, if that person passes training and passes IOE, they are literally, quite literally QUALIFIED. You really need to be careful about not giving anyone chances to redeem or right themselves. It won't be a good look when you someday might need some redemption or compassion.
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Now you get it!
Now you get why the anti-DEI argument is so freaking stupid and hollow.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Bringing this back to the thread title: Neither should half of this cabinet. The TranSec is a former reality show star. The SecEd is a campaign donor and wife of men's soap opera network.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
FOUR separate 121 checkride failures? I don’t care about egos. The flying public deserves better. We as CAs deserve better. Our FAs deserve better. Innocent people on the ground deserve better.
Fire them. Why is that so taboo?
Coming up on 20 yrs of 121 flying with zero failures, but If I fail 4 separate 737 CQs, I’ll hang my wings up and never touch a plane again. And no one should hire me either.
Primary training failures are a separate ball game. Part 121 training is an entirely easier ordeal. Put in half a decent effort and you’ll pass. I’ll give a mulligan for death in the family or divorce, but then again you should be taking time off - not getting tested.
I will never understand why it’s so taboo to sit someone down and tell them, even at 121, that this just isn’t for them, they suck, failed too many times, and now it’s time for a career change. No one owes you a flying career.
What's wrong with a brutal reality check?