Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Ok, cool - I just wanted to make sure I hadn't bought an 8K hour airplane that actually has 10K hours on it.
New Cessna 150 Owner
- Thread starter Murdoughnut
- Start date
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Still possible, but on a C150 - that isn't much of a difference in value/ maintenance items as there are very few, if any, life limited components on the venerable Cessna Commuter. You'd have to audit the logbooks to verify the tach - hobbs - TTAF. TTE are consistent.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
The newly overhauled prop ... $2,200 for the overhaul and another 3.2 in labor for my A&P to put it on:
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
3.2 is a little steep. It should be about 1 for R&R, unless there was other work happening.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
knot4u
Repeat Offender
It might depend on where the work was completed. Did @Murdoughnut bring the airplane to the mechanic or did the mechanic travel to the airplane? I'm not saying someone isn't overcharging for labor hours but even if the mechanic is based at the same airport they'll have to pack up their tools as if they were going on a road trip to a ramp parking spot a 1/4 mile away. If it was me doing the work I'd want to run the airplane up afterwards to make sure everything felt okay before I signed it off. I wouldn't insist on a test flight, I've changed engines on plenty of aircraft and the only test flights I ever went on were because of the operators GMM, most of the time you just take them to the blast fence and put them through a regiment of tests, make a couple adjustments (and if necessary fix any leaks) and then sign it off. With no other context other than a prop log entry and an airframe log entry it's hard to figure out why it took 3.2 hours, this is why a detailed W/O is important, it answers questions. The physical work of removing and reinstalling the spinner and the prop seems feasible in an hour IF EVERYTHING GOES PERFECTLY, one stripped screw on the spinner or any other number of things will throw that number way off. Then whoever did the work has to figure out and try to verify the hours (and cycles, but probably not on a 152) and either write or print up an airframe logbook entry (the prop shop should've already done their log book entry) and it all takes time. I don't think 3.2 hours of labor to remove and install the propeller on an airplane is exorbitant. If I owned a 152 I can guarantee you it would take longer for me to do it myself.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
That's a nice looking 152. I know they're a pain in the ass but I hope you keep the wheel pants, the performance or efficiency advantages are probably negligible but just based on this picture your airplane is the hot chick on that ramp.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
Did he change the alternator belt? It's one of those "as long as I'm here I might as well do this cheap thing as well" deals. I'm sensitive to that particular issue because of an issue I had that I described in another thread. I wanted to just change the alternator belt and continue south, it became quickly obvious to me that replacing the belt would require removing the propeller and although I was absolutely capable and I'd made some friends willing to loan me tools I decided to just leave that rental airplane at Paso Robles with the remnants of the alternator belt in the pilots seat, had I owned that airplane I'd of probably dug in and fixed it and ended up back home a day later.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
There would be a note of the IPS that was measured. Or, another dead giveaway would be the small screws in the flywheel used as weight to do the balance. Biggest giveaway, it takes time, and you would have gotten an invoice for that.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I used to work in a prop shop that overhauled big props, think C-130 and P-3 size props and they were all static balanced and I don't recall any complaints. When I graduated up to helicopters I learned about IPS, we'd mount those sensors all over the place to try to figure out why they were trying to shake themselves apart, there's a dongle underneath the cockpit floor of an Astar or TwinStar with a a tunable lead weight, you can move the weight fractions of an inch trying to chase weird harmonic vibrations. I recall back in the very old days there was a helicopter guru named Dave Dunstan that worked for Aerospatiale and we were friendly so I called him when we were chasing a vibration issue on one of our AS355s and he asked about how or who had worked on the aircraft and I told him the windscreens had been replaced. He just chuckled and said go retorque all of the windscreen fasteners. I dutifully went out and found the majority loose, tightened them per the AMM and that helicopter was perfect after that. And then I went on to work on turbofan engines and the IPS thing got even more important, but that's a story for another day.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Half a day to bolt the prop on a 152? I like the safety wire on the prop bolts to be perfect. So, even after clipping it off the 8th time, it is still less than an hour. Seriously?
If there is interference with the cowl, or something else going on = sure. Not hearing that here.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I agree and I said as much. Go back and read everything I wrote and perhaps you'll understand what I was talking about. If you want a responsible mechanic to install a prop it's not as simple as just bolting it up and perfect safety wire. But you hate Trump so I'm a bad aircraft mechanic.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
I have you on ignore. I clicked to turn that off, because I value aviation safety.
I have mounted propellers on Cessna 150 and 152 aircraft before, under A&P IA supervision. IAs who have signed off the work. With approved data, and measurements of the IPS of the vibration, following the shop manual's instructions, and the guidance from part 23, and 8083, and the AC's, and have assisted in recording that work as such in the appropriate airframe and propellor logbooks.
What in that have I been deficient in? Because this also involves my airplane, and my safety?
To be clear, I did not in any way critique your expertise as an aircraft mechanic, rather, I was repeating my IA's frustration with "Goldbricking" when he was quoted inflated rates in cases where they were not necessarily justified by the facts present.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I never suggested you were deficient in anything, and if you read what I wrote it starts with the supposition that some mechanics might be trying to make some mattress money. You blocked me and that's fine. But you resurfaced to tell me about how you're a mechanic under the supervision of an A/P IA (probably using their tools and their space) and never actually held the responsibility of signing it off. I'm not saying the job can't be done in a couple of hours, my point was there's more to it and once you sign for it you better be right about how it was done or (just like a pilot) you might find yourself imprisoned or destitute. I can guarantee you I've done more vibe surveys on more varied equipment with more varied equipment than you can imagine, analog to digital. I don't need non certificated mechanics working on airplanes and then claiming they're experts because they changed the prop on a 150/152. Have you ever done it on any big radial or turbine engine? I doubt it so why not sit back and learn something rather than opening your mouth and attempting to yell from the top of an ant hill? I know you hate Trump, no one cares.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
No, my tools, my hangar, my airplanes. I unblocked you to ask what maintenance considerations I may have missed. I have never signed off any maintenance work that would ever remotely exceed my authority to do so. I am familiar with what authority I do have as a pilot and owner under part 43. As you well know, work performed under the direct supervision (watching me do it) of A&P mechanics and IA's absolutely is customary and normal and within the scope of regulation, and my airplane sits next to several active DMEs. While I don't consult them professionally, we all collectively strive to keep a high standard of airworthiness and certainly know each other.
And yes, I think it is a fair question. Why should it take half day to mount a prop on a 152 with no other complications? I have seen it take weeks to fit a prop on other piston singles, but there were good reasons why. (the reasons were good - putting in weights, needing a 337 for them, cracks in a spinner to be re-worked, etc. etc.) But none of those considerations were given here.