PSA CRJ-700 AA midair collision

The CVRs seems to indicate the CRJ saw it coming while the helo likely didn't, or at least not with enough time for an audible response. Helo crew knew they were high, which is interesting.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
The CVRs seems to indicate the CRJ saw it coming while the helo likely didn't, or at least not with enough time for an audible response. Helo crew knew they were high, which is interesting.
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Sad thing is, whereas most anywhere else, being off altitude by “just a hundred feet or so” really makes zero difference…..heck, ATC considers an altitude deviation to be 300’. In this particular set of airspace with the specific ingredients of a helo being on that river flight route and a landing aircraft to RW 33, if both aircraft are at the intetsection of the flight route and a normal glide patch for 33, there’s barely 100 feet of separation IF everyone is at the proper altitudes. The route’s design vis a vis the extreme low altitudes at that point, were a swiss cheese model just waiting for the holes to align.
 
I am reading the interviews and it is amazing how many people think knowing how to circle to 33 is good for DCA ops. Even after stating that ATC may only get an extra 1-2 departures in an hour as a result.

I used to do 33 circles earlier in my time at PSA in -200s. I honestly believe it was a bad choice and it was the easier plane to circle. We had some interesting hard landings on the -700 and 900 on 33 while I was there that made the alarm ring in my head. I determined such an approach added unnecessary risk and ended my circling. If the airport wants to close 1/19 and use 15/33 then give me the RNAV. Simple as that.

Also, one of the pilots said 709PS was a straight flyer (minimal trim). MX must have made some big adjustments or they don't understand trim. I recall the plane being very crooked after the deer strike (surprise?).

Interesting side note. APDs discouraged circling while I was there. They really should have just pushed for a ban.

MikeD said:
RA is inactive. You’ll still get TAs, minus the aural below 500 I believe, if conditions are met.
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Sadly as already discussed most likely, DCA ops have TAs all the time which kind of makes them a "crying wolf" type of situation.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
The CVRs seems to indicate the CRJ saw it coming while the helo likely didn't, or at least not with enough time for an audible response. Helo crew knew they were high, which is interesting.
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It seems the helicopter crew was, unsurprisingly IMO, also having radio reception and transmission issues.
 
Maurus said:
I am reading the interviews and it is amazing how many people think knowing how to circle to 33 is good for DCA ops. Even after stating that ATC may only get an extra 1-2 departures in an hour as a result.
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The field's 10lbs of poop or more in a 5lbs or less bag, with or without the helicopter operations in close proximity.
 
Maurus said:
I think this was accidentally released. It appears to no longer be available.
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If it's the PSA interview transcripts (Exhibit 2-AIR-B) you're referencing, they're sitting in my downloads folder regardless of whether the Board wanted them out there or not.
 
Maurus said:
I think this was accidentally released. It appears to no longer be available.
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Was just about to say, I was wanting to look at something and figured it was just my browser security settings

Anyhow, the way the aforementioned Swiss cheese model waiting to happen was being negated, seemed to be the use of visual separation, which transfers separation responsibility from [overworked] tower controller, to the aircraft assigned the visual separation. Even better, the helo had requested it, implying to the tower controller that they had the correct traffic in sight and would avoid it on their own, by passing behind it as instructed by tower, Of course tower would approve that, why not? Well, the correct traffic has to be in sight for this to work. Which, macro-wise, wasn’t fixing the overarching Swiss cheese issue of the convergence of the helo route and 33 landing traffic altitude-wise, it was only putting a small temporary bandaid on it for each occurrence.

I’d still like to know via the helo CVR, what was going on in the helo cockpit as it came to traffic discussion, traffic certainty, any training going at the moment, anything…..training included…..as distractions, anything unsure or questioning? This really has to be from the CVR voice recording, since a transcript doesn’t have the inflections or context that only voice has; so the CVR analysis people will really have to sort that out. I’m curious as to their conclusions they release.
 
Maurus said:
Just talking about the main link. It no longer works.
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Screenshot 2025-07-30 at 12.03.16.png

wellllllllll I'll be darned

Incidentally, Chair Homendy is awesome.

I award the role of "least clueful" to the PSA party representative, who is clearly not a pilot and didn't understand the entire exposition done about barometric vs. radar vs. pressure altitudes at the start.
 
This is sort of an interesting one to me because the CRJ was relatively intact and they recovered nearly the entire aircraft and not in a billion pieces like a lot of these end up being. For instance, in the survivability doc, there's a picture of one of the FA jumpseats still intact and fully attached to a large piece of the bulkhead.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
This is sort of an interesting one to me because the CRJ was relatively intact and they recovered nearly the entire aircraft and not in a billion pieces like a lot of these end up being. For instance, in the survivability doc, there's a picture of one of the FA jumpseats still intact and fully attached to a large piece of the bulkhead.
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I mean. Smart cars have high safety ratings but when Jeb hits you with his huge truck you will be turned into a slurry but the car will still be mostly intact.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
This is sort of an interesting one to me because the CRJ was relatively intact and they recovered nearly the entire aircraft and not in a billion pieces like a lot of these end up being. For instance, in the survivability doc, there's a picture of one of the FA jumpseats still intact and fully attached to a large piece of the bulkhead.
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Blunt force trauma.
 
Maurus said:
I mean. Smart cars have high safety ratings but when Jeb hits you with his huge truck you will be turned into a slurry but the car will still be mostly intact.
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Point being, it wasn't a high energy impact and the aircraft didn't incinerate itself after the impact with the ground. The mini liquor bottles in the serving carts survived unscathed. You don't typically see wreckage in this "good" of condition.
 
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