BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
That's how it works here. The 30 minute is for free, but the company will normally ask you if you will be able to check fit to fly. The 2 hours requires pilot consent.
Nap time
- Thread starter invadertim
- Start date
That's how it works here. The 30 minute is for free, but the company will normally ask you if you will be able to check fit to fly. The 2 hours requires pilot consent.
🦈💜
All dragon~
In our case, activating our EFB counts as certifying that we're fit for duty, for any possible duty including extensions.
Extensions are automatic, and calculated as part of our limits. They often just push into reserve schedules, as all the flying is "unanticipated." Yes, you can call fatigued, but that's no different than any other part of an FDP—you still do the fatigue assessment, you're still subject to not being pay protected, and you may face disciplinary action. (Plus being kicked out of United's horrible new "pathway program," if you're one of the "lucky" few who are selected for it.)
IMO, FDP for an unaugmented RAP needs to start at the start of the RAP. FDP needs to otherwise start at the time you arrive on airport property (parking garage) or hotel van for the purpose of a flight. FDP needs to end at the hotel lobby, for purposes of rest—no carve out for 60 minute "local in nature" van rides.
Maximum permissible unextended FDP should be twelve hours, and deadhead, reflow, and cancellation legs should be part of the table B leg limits. "Unanticipated" should reflect truly unanticipated delays, not "well, this legal when we scheduled it, so even though your predicted FDP at the start of your FDP was already 14.7 hours, we had no idea it might be snowing in ORD in the winter, so it's unanticipated."
Part 117 is particularly egregious when it comes to reserve, and carveouts for "labor relations" issues that allow the company to abuse the pilot group ... and put all the burden of fitness for duty on the pilot.
Every year we do mandatory fatigue training which tells us how important it is to get uninterrupted sleep, go to bed the same time every night, etc, but then we're worked around the clock. If "sleep scientists" or human factors experts saw our actual schedules, they'd never fly again.
Beh.
mightynimbus
Well-Known Member
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Flyinthrew
Well-Known Member
Having ALL deadheads treated as operating legs for FDP calculation purposes...contractual, and a game changer. I've literally never heard of this like 30 minute free extension thing people are talking about. If you see your next leg takes you past Table B or C limits, even by a minute you have a choice to make. You're either cool with your extension or you're not. And that coolness can be revoked at any time with full force of federal law behind it any time before wheels up on that last leg, no questions asked. I'm really intrigued and curious about any other interpretation.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I haven't heard of the 30 minute thing either, FWIW. Our extensions are voluntary only. I believe only frontside DH's count towards FDP for us.
poser765
Well-Known Member
This is true, and a solid reminder that fatigue is fatigue wherever you are in your FDP. Legality never implies fitness for duty v
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Curious about something...
Does pilot concurrence for the extension require the consent of both pilots, or just the PIC? Asking for a friend...
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
At Johnny Cash Tail Airlines I remember being told explicitly in indoc that both pilots must accept separately. Then again that’s almost 3 months ago and I’m still not sure how much I actually remember and how accurately from that firehose of information.
Ian_J
Hubschrauber Flieger
Check the ALPA Part 117 Guide, question 33.
The PIC must concur but the FO can independently declare they aren’t fit for the extension.
CFIT99
I'm probably commenting ironically...
I've done this...when you're a junior Fo on reserve...your time will differ from the CA holding a line.
pretty much told him I'm exhausted and am going to call in fatigued, he's like "cool get some rest"
Flyinthrew
Well-Known Member
Here we have an automated ACARS before takeoff that notifies the extension is going to happen. You'll get one for each pilot independently and each pilot has to reply.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Per 117, only the captain is required to accept an extension, however every crew member must be fit to fly prior to departure. We have had a few cases of a captain not asking the rest of the crew and it backfiring when one of the FOs wasn't ok with it and would sign off as fit to fly. Ever instance I've had, the captain made it a discussion with the entire crew (including the FAs in one case) before providing a response.
Soul Brotha'
Off to go do Black guy stuff
I’ve never heard of the first 30 minutes is free(just accepted). You look at your table limits and that’s it. Company asks if you want to extend.
poser765
Well-Known Member
The good things about it is if you are coming up on needing an extension it doesn’t just sneak up on you. You can see that MFer coming for several hour. I’ve never been asked to extend without having talking about it at some length with the other guy v
roundout
VNAV monitor
Except CC
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
But that’s just me.
Flying 121 since 2007, and zero fatigue calls here. Zero times fallen asleep in an airplane.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
That just reinforces my opinion
