121 guys, how does this happen? (AKA,Oh Delta)

STS-41B said:
Why the hell don’t airlines simply RUN THE APU between flights? I know I know. $$$$. But how much does it *actually* cost them? Surely less than the cost of the lawsuit that’d come from someone who suffered a heat stroke.
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guywhoflies said:
Speaking of those types, I flew with an LCP recently at our shop. We were United in everything we did, except for the APU.

First leg, we landed, cleared the runway, and I started the APU. He reached up, turned it off and said he wanted to save fuel. Umm, ok? A couple legs later, after landing in DEN, I waited and asked him if it was okay to start the APU as we were approaching the ramp. He said no and then told me roughly 10 seconds later that I could start the APU.

His goal was to time it so we pulled in the gate right as the two minute warm up was finished. It was 97 degrees and he was more worried about burning 100lbs of gas than paasenger comfort.
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So at Uni Ted Junior (we'll see if this nickname sticks. What say you, @Yakob ?) we've got some pretty clear-cut APU usage policies. At our IAH hub, the gates are well laid-out, every parking slot has built-in GPUs and PC Air. The planes are kept nice and cool and it's a really smooth operation. When I started IOE out there, I learned a lot in that realm because the first three airplanes I flew had deferred APUs.

The IAD operation on the other hand...

The APU goes on before boarding, it stays on until the climb checklist, and it goes BACK on as soon as we clear the runway. It runs, pretty much, all day, because IAD has two GPUs total, one of which is required to be broken at all times, and supposedly a PC air cart though I've never actually seen it despite multiple failed attempts to ask for PC air.

The DEN operation DOES have PC Air carts, but they're required to have massive holes in the hoses so they blow cold air all over the ramp instead of into the airplane.

If Uni Ted Junior accepts near-full-time APU usage in IAD you know it's gotta be bad out there....
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Oh come on, you can’t check? Give me your DeltaNet password and I’ll find the crew faster than you can! ;)
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Oh like they’re going to talk! It’s getting nationwide media attention and it’s a smart move to lay low.

oftentimes, names are swiftly stricken from the flight info information because too many morons that want to feel important generally name-drop for the media.
 
trafficinsight said:
I had a captain throw a gate agent off the airplane once. It was an instructive moment.

We had a last minute tail change due to a mx issue and we got over to the new airplane and boarded but it had zero catering on board, like not even water for a DFW turn from SFO. They had to bring the catering over from the other airplane on account of the 1st class meals and such and we were in the queue for it but it was going to take a bit. Captain makes PA to that affect and we chat about life the universe and everything in a relaxed manner while we wait.

Gate agent comes on board and is like "why haven't you left yet." Captain explains and the gate guy just goes off on him "these people don't care about that, just go."

All of a sudden the gate guy picks up the PA phone and starts taking a poll "these pilots want to wait for catering, show of hands who wants to just go without it?"

The captain takes the phone away and pulls the gate agent into the flight deck and says "we'll leave when I say we leave, this isn't a democracy, get the * off my airplane I don't want to see you again."
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A couple of sage Captain tips that were passed on to me, and now I, as sage, pass on to you:

1) Road House Rules. Be nice. If people get all up in your zone, a simple layout of the requirements and a healthy shrug is all you need.

2) You're the Captain. You've already won the argument. There's no reason to be snippy, course, crude or cranky. You TELL people what's going to happen. If it doesn't happen, you can just sit back and s$!tpost on JC until it does.

3) The parking brake is the best safety device ever invented, and you own it. The brake light or annunciator might as well be a "people will be calling you soon" light.

4) This job only becomes hard when people fail to use the tools that have been made available to them or allow others to make decisions that are not their prerogative, since they're looking to make their life easier, not yours.
 
Richman said:
A couple of sage Captain tips that were passed on to me, and now I, as sage, pass on to you:

1) Road House Rules. Be nice. If people get all up in your zone, a simple layout of the requirements and a healthy shrug is all you need.

2) You're the Captain. You've already won the argument. There's no reason to be snippy, course, crude or cranky. You TELL people what's going to happen. If it doesn't happen, you can just sit back and s$!tpost on JC until it does.

3) The parking brake is the best safety device ever invented, and you own it. The brake light or annunciator might as well be a "people will be calling you soon" light.

4) This job only becomes hard when people fail to use the tools that have been made available to them or allow others to make decisions that are not their prerogative, since they're looking to make their life easier, not yours.
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This should be framed as a Motivational Poster.
 
Richman said:
A couple of sage Captain tips that were passed on to me, and now I, as sage, pass on to you:

1) Road House Rules. Be nice. If people get all up in your zone, a simple layout of the requirements and a healthy shrug is all you need.

2) You're the Captain. You've already won the argument. There's no reason to be snippy, course, crude or cranky. You TELL people what's going to happen. If it doesn't happen, you can just sit back and s$!tpost on JC until it does.

3) The parking brake is the best safety device ever invented, and you own it. The brake light or annunciator might as well be a "people will be calling you soon" light.

4) This job only becomes hard when people fail to use the tools that have been made available to them or allow others to make decisions that are not their prerogative, since they're looking to make their life easier, not yours.
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Good advice. After 3 1/2 years in the left seat I would add that whatever attitude you put out there gets reflected back at you x the number of crewmembers you have under you, so if you are hurried and harassed and impatient.... watch out for the flood ;)
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
On my Captain OE I entered a baking hot aircraft at 5AM. The outside air heat had been hooked up overnight and the plane could only be described as extremely uncomfortable. Every flight attendant asked me to do something about the heat. Here I am the guy with four stripes and I ask the LCA sitting in the cockpit with both windows open to start the APU. "No" he says. "Lets have them hook up the outside air." So he calls ops and 20 minutes later there still isn't outside air. Meanwhile during my FA briefing I'm basically just apologizing and saying look I'm really sorry. The LCA won't let me turn the AC on. Me, the guy with 4 stripes. Completely useless and my crew is miserable. Finally I just get tired of it and insist on starting the APU. "No". I explain that all 4 flight attendants are super uncomfortable and we are about to start boarding. "Flight attendant comfort does not matter." I nearly lost it.

So then I ask. If the flight attendants are human and they are uncomfortable, does it mean the passengers who are human will also be uncomfortable? Or is there something else that I am missing?

At that point he finally let me start the APU.

This is probably my biggest pain point being a former corporate pilot and being at a 121 carrier. It doesn't help that somehow our pilot group has institutionalized making other human beings miserable. After OE it seems like it is poorly managed by the training department. It's a top down training thing. I don't get it and I never will. I'm just sorry that is all.
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That is absolutely unacceptable. Your job is to run the show and it’s the LCA’s job to let you run it within safe and acceptable boundaries. Acceptable, meaning you can make decisions that lead to enlightenment. I’m not a LCA, but if it came down to saving $500 on gas, I’d debrief you later. It’s time for you to get comfortable being your own CA. Man, that heats me up.
 
falconvalley said:
That is absolutely unacceptable. Your job is to run the show and it’s the LCA’s job to let you run it within safe and acceptable boundaries. Acceptable, meaning you can make decisions that lead to enlightenment. I’m not a LCA, but if it came down to saving $500 on gas, I’d debrief you later. It’s time for you to get comfortable being your own CA. Man, that heats me up.
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Back in my flight instruction days I quickly learned that if I just shut my mouth, crossed my arms and let my students make errors they learned not to make those errors again. Typically this approach led to really great debriefings where the student would tell me exactly what they did wrong. Leading to yet another learning moment with no or minimal intervention on my part. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be how things work at my current shops training department.
 
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EIR said:
Nothing has changed since you retired.

99% of the time we fire up the APU taxiing in, unless it's one of few gateways that ACARS us with "Ground power available." More times than not, there'll be a mechanic at the gate standing next to a GPU that's not turned on. By the time they get it going, the APU is already started.

I personally don't like sitting at the stand with the left engine running. The ground workers are great for the most part, but I have seen a select few who are walking around on their phones not paying attention. Stories over beers.
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At my shop, they're actually really good about plugging us in as soon as we park. The mechanics that park us are always waiting with the plug and it's just a matter of a minute or 2 once we set brakes.

The only time on my fleet that we start the APU on taxi-in is if we are at a tow-in gate, get a Ground Power Not Available on our In Range or if we have Lives aboard.

We don't have to worry about people getting near a running engine (at least at Planet Elvis) because there always seems to be a significant time difference from the time we park until the crew arrives to pull up the stairs.
 
Skåning said:
I dont get the APU use apprehension. It burns like $90 an hour worth of gas. Run that ish
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Sure. That completely makes sense proximately. Like, what kind of 'tard wouldn't?? Who wants to bake shiz (that's a possessive pronoun for the new age, btw) Pax?

Still, makes zero sense in terms of solving the larger problem; just makes the larger problem worse.

We are a nation that burns coal to produce electricity to power air conditioners that keep us cool when confronted by the heat created by the burning of coal. Makes great and perfect sense!
 
Skåning said:
I dont get the APU use apprehension. It burns like $90 an hour worth of gas. Run that ish
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I think all 121 pilots should be required to learn that 1000# = 150 gallons. So when someone says oh I saved 200 pounds with that direct routing they understand it’s only 30 gallons of gas.

I think this is the downside of so many tasks being done for 121 crew. They don’t know what 100# of gas means.


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BEEF SUPREME said:
I think all 121 pilots should be required to learn that 1000# = 150 gallons. So when someone says oh I saved 200 pounds with that direct routing they understand it’s only 30 gallons of gas.

I think this is the downside of so many tasks being done for 121 crew. They don’t know what 100# of gas means.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Better yet, every pilot should be required to have already learned basic math before ever even thinking about trying to become a pilot!

But... but... MATH is hard!

They NEVER made me study math to pass my ATP or Dispatch written test. Even if they had, I "passed" the test by purchasing a course that taught me how to memorize the answers!
 
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