Challenger 300 Turbulence Death - Prelim Released

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Meh. Obviously with 0 Corpie jet time, I don't meet the 250 hrs on type for Argus/Wyrem. The other hours I am way over. The rest of the comment on ETOPS-style things can be taught. This isn't God's gift to aviation flying. Like anything, it can be learned and depending on learning ability, fairly quickly. We have a SMS system at our shop, although I'm not on any safety team. I read the info that's disseminated and learn from others' mistakes. Also have FOQA and an ALPA ability to ask for and re-create an animation of any of our recent flights (eg, approach phase, landing, etc).

Don't worry, I'm not applying to your Corpie company. And no offense with hiring being what it is, I don't see why someone young *today* would go for a Corpie career when the big 6 in America offer so much more. Pay, retirement, fixed predictable schedule, etc.
Click to expand...

None of that was ETOPS. ETOPS literally has nothing to do with what I posted lol. We don’t bother with ETOS, as we can meet all of our requirements in the 120/180 which is more stringent (safer?) than ETOPS.

SMS is not a “read the things” it requires pilot input lol. And it’s incredibly ineffective if it’s only about mistakes. SMS is supposed to capture hazards and risks to operations. Be it things like non standard PAPI positions on 29 at EWR, terrain, ATC issues, non standard phraseology etc. training issues, aircraft issues etc. SMS - safety management is so much more than just reading the notices. Do you even know how data is reported and captured? If 121 is so much safer, why aren’t you fully invested in your safety management systems?

FOQA can’t recreate any flights. Your QAR could in theory.

I’m assuming you don’t know what QMS, and that’s fine-

250 hours is the bare minimum lol.

So no, you’re not qualified lol. Sure you can learn it, but, I’m not interested in a candidate that needs their hand held to get through IPC.

We start north of 250k, have a predictable schedule, profit sharing + options, match.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Meh. Obviously with 0 Corpie jet time, I don't meet the 250 hrs on type for Argus/Wyrem. The other hours I am way over. The rest of the comment on ETOPS-style things can be taught. This isn't God's gift to aviation flying. Like anything, it can be learned and depending on learning ability, fairly quickly. We have a SMS system at our shop, although I'm not on any safety team. I read the info that's disseminated and learn from others' mistakes. Also have FOQA and an ALPA ability to ask for and re-create an animation of any of our recent flights (eg, approach phase, landing, etc).

Don't worry, I'm not applying to your Corpie company. And no offense with hiring being what it is, I don't see why someone young *today* would go for a Corpie career when the big 6 in America offer so much more. Pay, retirement, fixed predictable schedule, etc.
Click to expand...

I’d be careful. I think you’ve probably nuked these bridges from orbit anyway. But I’m not exactly smitten on our virtual airlines prospects. Apparently an entire class of new hires didn’t show, training thought it was a mistake and had to eat humble pie when they called each class member and found out they elected not to show up.

I don’t personally see how we survive through 2032. In a way it’s too bad the economic downturn the “Happy 82” were so positive about never occurred. It would be the only way we could fill classes.

I would not be very happy about flying 91/135 again but at least it would pay the bills.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I’d be careful. I think you’ve probably nuked these bridges from orbit anyway. But I’m not exactly smitten on our virtual airlines prospects. Apparently an entire class of new hires didn’t show, training thought it was a mistake and had to eat humble pie when they called each class member and found out they elected not to show up.

I don’t personally see how we survive through 2032. In a way it’s too bad the economic downturn the “Happy 82” were so positive about never occurred. It would be the only way we could fill classes.

I would not be very happy about flying 91/135 again but at least it would pay the bills.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Nukes bridges? I’ve seen the unhireable get hired at the big 5. One guy who I was told in particular would “never see the light of the day” at the big 3, made it to a big 3. No one cares.

Where is this fantasy dream coming that AS will fail because it can’t get pilots? If things get that bad that AS can’t get pilots, the SAME will be true at any non big-3 airline. Southwest, Alaska, jetBlue, Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, all fail due to the lack of ability to get pilots?

Let’s get real. It just ain’t happening. You WILL see congress revert the law back to the 250 hr Commercial rule and have new wet Comm/ME/Inst flying A320/B737s before you see 20%+ of the country’s airline capacity wiped out.

Economic downturn? Who said we are out of the woods yet? We aren’t. Let’s see how 2023-2024 go. I still do not have a good feeling.

Lastly, the most recent pilot call squashed the supposed rumor of an entire new hire class no-show.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Nukes bridges? I’ve seen the unhireable get hired at the big 5. One guy who I was told in particular would “never see the light of the day” at the big 3, made it to a big 3. No one cares.

Where is this fantasy dream coming that AS will fail because it can’t get pilots? If things get that bad that AS can’t get pilots, the SAME will be true at any non big-3 airline. Southwest, Alaska, jetBlue, Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, all fail due to the lack of ability to get pilots?

Let’s get real. It just ain’t happening. You WILL see congress revert the law back to the 250 hr Commercial rule and have new wet Comm/ME/Inst flying A320/B737s before you see 20%+ of the country’s airline capacity wiped out.

Economic downturn? Who said we are out of the woods yet? We aren’t. Let’s see how 2023-2024 go. I still do not have a good feeling.

Lastly, the most recent pilot call squashed the supposed rumor of an entire new hire class no-show.
Click to expand...

I was referring to getting hired at a corporate operator. Also, I don't believe a word coming from a pilot call. You actually listen to those?
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
None of that was ETOPS. ETOPS literally has nothing to do with what I posted lol. We don’t bother with ETOS, as we can meet all of our requirements in the 120/180 which is more stringent (safer?) than ETOPS.

SMS is not a “read the things” it requires pilot input lol. And it’s incredibly ineffective if it’s only about mistakes. SMS is supposed to capture hazards and risks to operations. Be it things like non standard PAPI positions on 29 at EWR, terrain, ATC issues, non standard phraseology etc. training issues, aircraft issues etc. SMS - safety management is so much more than just reading the notices. Do you even know how data is reported and captured? If 121 is so much safer, why aren’t you fully invested in your safety management systems?

FOQA can’t recreate any flights. Your QAR could in theory.

I’m assuming you don’t know what QMS, and that’s fine-

250 hours is the bare minimum lol.

So no, you’re not qualified lol. Sure you can learn it, but, I’m not interested in a candidate that needs their hand held to get through IPC.

We start north of 250k, have a predictable schedule, profit sharing + options, match.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Ooo hold hands to get through an IPC. Clearly I stepped on your ego. “My bad.”

Couldn’t care less. I know at our shop, we have specific approaches that literally no other airline has - probably not even your Corpie shop. As far as I’m aware, they are Airline-specific RNP approaches.


And yes, I know where 121 is lacking. We have zero LPV. I think those would be awesome - and they’re probably coming at some point. I know there’s synthetic vision and a whole host of other technology (heck, even a G1000 is more advanced than what the NGs have).

That said, if I had fly from point A to B, I’d choose a US Part 121 airline before anything else. Not sorry if that hurts feelings.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I was referring to getting hired at a corporate operator. Also, I don't believe a word coming from a pilot call. You actually listen to those?
Click to expand...

In an economic downturn? I remember furloughed 121 pilots sharing stories that Corpies were hesitant to hire them, knowing the airline guy would take his recall back and bail.



Yea, I listen. Mostly because the timing is right. 10-12 noon. Both kids in school, wife at her part time job, I’m home alone with time. Sure I’ll fire up the iPad and let the Teams conference play in full volume while I do other stuff and just listen.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
No, you don't meet Argus/ Wyrem - and wouldn't know what Descend to controlled airspace means, or, for that matter what happens above controlled airspace in the NAT HLA ( or likely anything about NAT HLA ops). Sans crossings, IPC's, etc and general unfamiliarity with the LOA's required we'd need to babysit, and, we don't train in the airplane. I'm assuming you've never cracked the Gold doc. I also suspect that your're not up to speed with SMS/QMS. How many safety and standards meeting have you attended in the last 12/24? you also have no prior CKA/TCE/Mil time.

That CV/REs would be direct to the circular lol.
Click to expand...
I've dealt with Wyvern and Argus audits to maintain either Wingman or Platinum ratings at multiple 135 companies and, in my experience, we never failed anything and the audits were non-issues, our status was never changed and that was with some old airplanes. Those audits are easy compared to the FAA. But the actually difficult audits if you're chartering to VVHNI's is from the customers insurance company, those might be brutal. I'm not saying Wyvern or Argus aren't worth what they say they are but, the auditors sure don't mind a spread of breakfast foods in the morning and an invite to lunch with your most charismatic representative at the nicest local restaurant. The FAA inspectors won't accept a cup of coffee at 8am nor a cold bottle of water on a 110 degree afternoon but at least they're willing to have a conversation. The insurance auditors are a whole different sort of animal.
 
Last edited:
KLB said:
You act like you actually have a choice! I find this hilarious!
Click to expand...

I meant general mode of transportation. Cars, trains, planes, and of the planes, different options.

And actually, for my wife/kids to see family overseas, we DON’T have a choice. We have to take basically one of the ME carriers. No US airline goes to my birth country. Not happy with that, but it is what it is.
 
knot4u said:
I've dealt with Wyvern and Argus audits to maintain either Wingman or Platinum ratings at multiple 135 companies and, in my experience, we never failed anything and the audits were non-issues, our status was never changed and that was with some old airplanes. Those audits are easy compared to the FAA. But the actually difficult audits if you're chartering to VVHNI's is from the customers insurance company, those might be brutal. I'm not saying Wyvern or Argus aren't worth what they say they are but, the auditors sure don't mind a spread of breakfast foods in the morning and an invite to lunch with your most charismatic representative at the nicest local restaurant. The FAA inspectors won't accept a cup of coffee at 8am nor a cold bottle of water on a 110 degree afternoon But at least they're willing to have a conversation. The insurance auditors are a whole different sort of animal.
Click to expand...

That’s kinda the point Re CC and Argus/wyrem lol, anybody who knows anything about 91/135 knows that it’s pretty much a bought audit.

As far as FAA they can’t accept anything, the magic number for them was $25 however I’m pretty sure current guidance is nothing. And yes, insurance audits are “fun”.



Airline specific approaches? Lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Don't worry, the 121 carriers didn't want CC either.

He went to Virgin when no one sane was going to Virgin and then got acquired by AAG.

Otherwise he'd be on the street busking with a broke-assed guitar with a change cup.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
That’s kinda the point Re CC and Argus/wyrem lol, anybody who knows anything about 91/135 knows that it’s pretty much a bought audit.

As far as FAA they can’t accept anything, the magic number for them was $25 however I’m pretty sure current guidance is nothing. And yes, insurance audits are “fun”.



Airline specific approaches? Lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I recall a FAA audit at a place I was working. We (me and one of my coworkers) were discussing where me might go for lunch and mentioned a couple spots within earshot of the inspectors. They left for lunch about 15 minutes before we did. We walked in to the restaurant and sat down. I looked at the next table and it was our friendly FAA inspectors. They knew we were there, we knew they were there and it was kind of awkward, luckily they had a head start so they left about the time our food showed up. I'll once again say if you're in the KVNY area and looking for lunch this is a good spot...


 
derg said:
Don't worry, the 121 carriers didn't want CC either.

He went to Virgin when no one sane was going to Virgin and then got acquired by AAG.

Otherwise he'd be on the street busking with a broke-assed guitar with a change cup.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, there's the Delta in you. It's nice when it comes out. Only wish it came out more. :)


He went to Virgin when...
Click to expand...

...no one else was hiring except Spirit, Virgin, jetBlue.

Disingenuous assertion by you. My applications in 2011 reflected the state of the market. Delta = 0 hiring in 2008-2009, 2010 they opened the window momentarily to hire some in the Summer, and then no newhire classes in 2011, 2012, 2013, and Jan 2014 was the start of their hiring spree. AA didn't start their hiring spree until late 2013 and UA had some in 2013. No one sane going to Virgin in 2011? Pray, do tell where were people going in 2011 or even 2012? Must be nice to have been a capped out 12th yr major FO by choice, but I'll tell ya it was a little rough in that time period for us plebians.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ozziecat35
135.293 SIC Ride
Replies
3
Views
3K
ahw01
ahw01
Retired in SAN
Any pilots' worse nightmare..
2 3 4
Replies
66
Views
11K
Bumblebee
Bumblebee
T/O w/FSII
Black Rock City Airport 2013
Replies
1
Views
1K
JayAre
J
MikeD
The Runway to Hell is Paved With Good Intentions
Replies
19
Views
8K
dustoff17
dustoff17
Nark
New hire required reading.
Replies
8
Views
3K
guywhoflies
guywhoflies
Back
Top