ground call horns. They are a thing indeed.
PDT Employee Killed in MGM
- Thread starter Sluggo
- Start date
ground call horns. They are a thing indeed.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Saw a pissed off CA lay on the ground horn for about 30s. He was ignored.
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I use the horn for a few short taps in conjunction with a friendly hand wave to people in order to say hello.
roundout
VNAV monitor
there were a handful of CAs (the calls panel is on the CAs side in the ATR) who would honk at boats on a lake at about 500 afe on a final approach to San Angelo, particularly if there were girls visible. I’m guessing that did exactly zero over the prop and engine noise, but I always laughed.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
I feel like that's just asking for something to happen a few seconds later that requires the CVR to be pulled.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
We’d honk as we passed company ATR’s in the Caribbean for •s and giggles.
It also has a “ditch” button.
Avalon781ML
Well-Known Member
I remember horse collaring a guy right before he tried stepping into a SF340 prop… poor dude was exhausted and just didn’t see the prop in motion… pissed himself on the ramp when the prop went into feather. I don’t think he ever came back.
roundout
VNAV monitor
They all flowed to American or got hired at Southwest. I guess you could say things are getting pretty serious.I see Kip went into aviation. I wonder if your captain is still with LaFawnDuh?
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Some have rearview mirrors too.
And telephones where you can crank call your wife from the middle of the ocean. But who answers an unfamiliar caller ID in 2023?
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Lol it's funny @JustinS was just asking me if I freaked out after coming a few inches from instadeath...not at all. I just laughed out loud at how stupid I was then saw a terrified pax up in the window and laughed harder. Funny that would make someone quit, just don't do it again and who cares? Complacency gets the best of all of us if we let it.
Flash backs of being removed as a safety representative during the SFO airport commission meetings because I couldn't stop laughing hysterically at all the dumb ways people almost died or bent metal. I have a pretty dark sense of humor, but I do give you all the green light to laugh at me if I ever die doing something really dumb. The final roast is what I would have wanted.
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JordanD
Chinese Food Enthusiast
There were more than a few times in ORD where I wished planes had blinkers too.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
"San Francisco radio, could you patch starting with *67 please?"
*boopboop*
Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
- NTSB issue the preliminary report into the ground fatality accident involving American Eagle flight ENY3408, an Embraer ERJ-175, N264NN, that occurred on December 31, 2022, at Montgomery Regional Airport (MGM/KMGM), Alabama:
On December 31, 2022, about 1539 eastern standard time (EST), an Embraer 170 airplane, N264NN, was involved in an accident while parked at the gate with one engine running at Montgomery Regional Airport (MGM), Montgomery, Alabama. The 63 passengers and crew onboard were uninjured. One ramp personnel was fatally injured. The flight was operating under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulation Part 121as a regularly scheduled domestic passenger flight from Dallas Fort Worth (DFW), Texas to MGM.
The flight was operated by Envoy Air Inc. doing business as American Eagle flight ENY3408 with an inoperative auxiliary power unit (APU). The flight crew reported that after an uneventful flight they elected to leave both engines running for the required two-minute engine cool down period. As the airplane approached the gate, three ramp agents were present, but clear of the safety area. After stopping the aircraft and setting the parking brake, the captain gave the hand signal to connect the airplane to ground power. As he was shutting down the number 2 (right) engine the “DOOR CRG FWD OPEN” engine indicating and crew alerting system (EICAS) message appeared (indicating that the forward cargo door had opened). The first officer (FO) opened his cockpit window to inform the ramp agent that the engines were still operating. The captain then made a brief announcement asking the passengers to remain seated until the seat belt sign had been turned off. He then relayed his intentions to the FO that the seat belt sign would stay illuminated until they had connected to ground power and could shut down the number 1 (left) engine. Immediately thereafter, he saw a warning light illuminate and the airplane shook violently followed by the immediate automatic shutdown of the number 1 engine. Unsure of what had occurred, he extinguished the emergency lights and shut off both batteries before leaving the flight deck to investigate.
Video surveillance captured the accident sequence and showed the airplane being marshalled to the gate. After the nose wheel was chocked, the ramp agent marshaling the airplane walked toward the forward cargo door located on the right side and near the front of the airplane. Simultaneously, another ramp agent appeared walking towards the back of the airplane with an orange safety cone where she disappeared from view. A third ramp agent located near the right wing tip could be seen gesturing with his hand towards the back of the airplane. Meanwhile, a fourth ramp agent knelt near the airplane’s nose wheel. The ramp agent from the back of the airplane reappeared and began walking away from the airplane and towards the left wing tip where she disappeared from the camera’s field of view. The marshaller could be seen backing away from the airplane’s open forward cargo door and the ramp agent from the back of the airplane reappeared walking along the leading edge of the left wing and directly in front of the number one engine. She was subsequently pulled off her feet and into the operating engine. Throughout the course of the accident, the airplane’s upper rotating beacon light appeared to be illuminated.
The ground crew reported that a safety briefing was held about 10 minutes before the airplane arrived at the gate. A second safety “huddle” was held shortly before the airplane arrived at the gate, to reiterate that the engines would remain running until ground power was connected. It was also discussed that the airplane should not be approached, and the diamond of safety cones should not be set until the engines were off, spooled down, and the airplane’s rotating beacon light had been extinguished by the flight crew.
One ramp agent located near the right wing tip stated that he observed another ramp agent approach the back of the airplane to set the rear safety cone. He observed her almost fall over from the engines exhaust while he attempted to alert her to stay back and wait for the engines to be shut down. He also stated that he observed the airplane’s upper and lower rotating beacon lights illuminated.
Another ramp agent stated that after chocking the nose wheel of the airplane, he observed another ramp agent approach the forward cargo door and he knelt to wave him off. He then observed another ramp agent about to set the safety cone at the rear of the airplane, he yelled and waved her off as the number 1 engine was still running. He observed her as she began to move away from the airplane before he turned to lower the cord for the ground power. Shortly thereafter he heard a “bang” and the engine shut down.
The American Eagle Ground Operations Manual, Revision 3 dated July 13, 2022, states in part:
To Keep Employees Alive and Aircraft Intact, You Will:
NEVER approach an aircraft to position ground equipment next to an aircraft or open cargo bin doors until the engines are shut down and the rotating beacon(s) turned off, except when conducting an approved single engine turn.
Jetblast/Ingestion Zones
Jet engines spin with powerful speed and are extremely dangerous until spooled down. The area in front of the engine is called the ingestion zone. The ingestion zone for all aircraft types is 15 feet. You must never enter the ingestion zone until the engine has spooled down.
Spool Down
The engine must be spooled down before entering the ingestion zone. This can take between 30-60 seconds, depending on aircraft type. This applies to both wing and fuselage/tail mounted engines. You must wait until you can clearly see the individual fan blades before entering the ingestion zone.
On December 31, 2022, about 1539 eastern standard time (EST), an Embraer 170 airplane, N264NN, was involved in an accident while parked at the gate with one engine running at Montgomery Regional Airport (MGM), Montgomery, Alabama. The 63 passengers and crew onboard were uninjured. One ramp personnel was fatally injured. The flight was operating under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulation Part 121as a regularly scheduled domestic passenger flight from Dallas Fort Worth (DFW), Texas to MGM.
The flight was operated by Envoy Air Inc. doing business as American Eagle flight ENY3408 with an inoperative auxiliary power unit (APU). The flight crew reported that after an uneventful flight they elected to leave both engines running for the required two-minute engine cool down period. As the airplane approached the gate, three ramp agents were present, but clear of the safety area. After stopping the aircraft and setting the parking brake, the captain gave the hand signal to connect the airplane to ground power. As he was shutting down the number 2 (right) engine the “DOOR CRG FWD OPEN” engine indicating and crew alerting system (EICAS) message appeared (indicating that the forward cargo door had opened). The first officer (FO) opened his cockpit window to inform the ramp agent that the engines were still operating. The captain then made a brief announcement asking the passengers to remain seated until the seat belt sign had been turned off. He then relayed his intentions to the FO that the seat belt sign would stay illuminated until they had connected to ground power and could shut down the number 1 (left) engine. Immediately thereafter, he saw a warning light illuminate and the airplane shook violently followed by the immediate automatic shutdown of the number 1 engine. Unsure of what had occurred, he extinguished the emergency lights and shut off both batteries before leaving the flight deck to investigate.
Video surveillance captured the accident sequence and showed the airplane being marshalled to the gate. After the nose wheel was chocked, the ramp agent marshaling the airplane walked toward the forward cargo door located on the right side and near the front of the airplane. Simultaneously, another ramp agent appeared walking towards the back of the airplane with an orange safety cone where she disappeared from view. A third ramp agent located near the right wing tip could be seen gesturing with his hand towards the back of the airplane. Meanwhile, a fourth ramp agent knelt near the airplane’s nose wheel. The ramp agent from the back of the airplane reappeared and began walking away from the airplane and towards the left wing tip where she disappeared from the camera’s field of view. The marshaller could be seen backing away from the airplane’s open forward cargo door and the ramp agent from the back of the airplane reappeared walking along the leading edge of the left wing and directly in front of the number one engine. She was subsequently pulled off her feet and into the operating engine. Throughout the course of the accident, the airplane’s upper rotating beacon light appeared to be illuminated.
The ground crew reported that a safety briefing was held about 10 minutes before the airplane arrived at the gate. A second safety “huddle” was held shortly before the airplane arrived at the gate, to reiterate that the engines would remain running until ground power was connected. It was also discussed that the airplane should not be approached, and the diamond of safety cones should not be set until the engines were off, spooled down, and the airplane’s rotating beacon light had been extinguished by the flight crew.
One ramp agent located near the right wing tip stated that he observed another ramp agent approach the back of the airplane to set the rear safety cone. He observed her almost fall over from the engines exhaust while he attempted to alert her to stay back and wait for the engines to be shut down. He also stated that he observed the airplane’s upper and lower rotating beacon lights illuminated.
Another ramp agent stated that after chocking the nose wheel of the airplane, he observed another ramp agent approach the forward cargo door and he knelt to wave him off. He then observed another ramp agent about to set the safety cone at the rear of the airplane, he yelled and waved her off as the number 1 engine was still running. He observed her as she began to move away from the airplane before he turned to lower the cord for the ground power. Shortly thereafter he heard a “bang” and the engine shut down.
The American Eagle Ground Operations Manual, Revision 3 dated July 13, 2022, states in part:
To Keep Employees Alive and Aircraft Intact, You Will:
NEVER approach an aircraft to position ground equipment next to an aircraft or open cargo bin doors until the engines are shut down and the rotating beacon(s) turned off, except when conducting an approved single engine turn.
Jetblast/Ingestion Zones
Jet engines spin with powerful speed and are extremely dangerous until spooled down. The area in front of the engine is called the ingestion zone. The ingestion zone for all aircraft types is 15 feet. You must never enter the ingestion zone until the engine has spooled down.
Spool Down
The engine must be spooled down before entering the ingestion zone. This can take between 30-60 seconds, depending on aircraft type. This applies to both wing and fuselage/tail mounted engines. You must wait until you can clearly see the individual fan blades before entering the ingestion zone.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Sounds like everything was done right and still this happened.
Beep
Well-Known Member
actually it doesn’t appear that way, the cargo door was opened with an engine running and the beacon still on, one ramper tried to place a safety cone behind the aircraft with the beacon still on an an engine running ( contrary to what was briefed before the aircraft arrived ( possibly the person that ended up being ingested by the engine later). These things were contrary to the safety brief in the huddle just minutes earlier.
It will be interesting to see the final report on this when all factors have been examined and a conclusion made by the NTSB, but yes, for now it does highlight the proper procedures in the manual for ground handling employees.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Yeah, I guess I meant more that they had communicated the proper procedures it seems.
DropTank
Well-Known Member
Looks like there is a cultural problem with the ground crew.
Lack of procedures, lack of discipline.
I've seen veteran crews pressure rookies into making mistakes for fun, or forcing them to act without thinking, making a serious mistake, just for a few laughs.
Rampers get pulled off lunch or ripped away from the punch clock to get one more airplane. Now their head is not with the job but thinking about food or home. Then the rush happens and they start trying to shave off a few seconds here and there.
Ramp habits need to be trained to instinct. You ALWAYS walk a perimeter around the intake, running or not. With props, you ALWAYS walk around the arc, running or not. When the panic, or rush hits, you do what you always do, what you are trained to do, and what you practice. You suddenly have a late bag that needs to go into cargo, you will instinctively take the safest path.
That ramp sounds like a circus. The training is probably poor and they are likely hiring anyone to fill the position because they absolutely REFUSE to raise the wages.
The news will say the dead ramper was careless.
Reality says that the entire system from hiring to training to the basic culture is at fault.
Lack of procedures, lack of discipline.
I've seen veteran crews pressure rookies into making mistakes for fun, or forcing them to act without thinking, making a serious mistake, just for a few laughs.
Rampers get pulled off lunch or ripped away from the punch clock to get one more airplane. Now their head is not with the job but thinking about food or home. Then the rush happens and they start trying to shave off a few seconds here and there.
Ramp habits need to be trained to instinct. You ALWAYS walk a perimeter around the intake, running or not. With props, you ALWAYS walk around the arc, running or not. When the panic, or rush hits, you do what you always do, what you are trained to do, and what you practice. You suddenly have a late bag that needs to go into cargo, you will instinctively take the safest path.
That ramp sounds like a circus. The training is probably poor and they are likely hiring anyone to fill the position because they absolutely REFUSE to raise the wages.
The news will say the dead ramper was careless.
Reality says that the entire system from hiring to training to the basic culture is at fault.
