New Alaska TA

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
“It's not like I could have changed the minds of people that are doggedly determined that passenger demand is about to drop off a cliff.”






Angry 18%er still angry that people voted yes to a contract, with one reason being they didn’t feel the economic conditions going forward would favor negotiations, not to mention going towards any calamity with 0 scope. :rolleyes:

Do yourself a favor. Apply to the big 3. Why not leave, because you clearly aren’t happy at AS. Just don’t talk about antisemitic Corpie CAs or antisemitic AS FOs during your interviews.
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How many times do you think you’ve used the term “angry 18%”? Seriously why do people like you have to throw odd titles on everything? I think it makes you feel righteous to put everyone who doesn’t agree with you in a labeled group as if they only disagree with you because they’re in that group. Not saying your views are right or wrong, it’s just annoying.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I'm pointing out that pilots should stick to doing and being experts at what they do. Operating flying machinery. We need to learn to have self worth and get back what we have lost.
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Some of us have become experts in areas beyond operating flying machinery (10,000 hour rule and such) and those are the people saying that you weren't going to get a meaningfully better deal than the one you got based on a whole bunch of things. Personally I don't think a potential recession even entered the equation, but Alaska's positioning the industry, what other carriers are doing, the amount of improvements in the deal, and the makeup of the current NMB certainly did.
 
Box hauler said:
How many times do you think you’ve used the term “angry 18%”? Seriously why do people like you have to throw odd titles on everything? I think it makes you feel righteous to put everyone who doesn’t agree with you in a labeled group as if they only disagree with you because they’re in that group. Not saying your views are right or wrong, it’s just annoying.
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More like it’s based on the angry 18 calling out those who vote yes as sissies who are afraid of the economy and recession to vote no and send back for a round 2. The name calling and offensiveness was mostly from that crowd, which is why you see some mud slinging back and forth.

I don’t care per se, I knew it would pass, I just didn’t think it was going to be as high as 82% yes. That helped show just how small the vocal No crowd really was.
 
BobDDuck said:
Some of us have become experts in areas beyond operating flying machinery (10,000 hour rule and such) and those are the people saying that you weren't going to get a meaningfully better deal than the one you got based on a whole bunch of things. Personally I don't think a potential recession even entered the equation, but Alaska's positioning the industry, what other carriers are doing, the amount of improvements in the deal, and the makeup of the current NMB certainly did.
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So never take investment advice from pilots, unless you’re voting on possibly the most important contract of your career.

OK.

I think Q1 of 23 will show how poorly this whole thing is going to work out.


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BEEF SUPREME said:
So never take investment advice from pilots, unless you’re voting on possibly the most important contract of your career.

OK.

I think Q1 of 23 will show how poorly this whole thing is going to work out.


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Do you not understand that when ALPA makes recommendations it isn’t just coming from pilots? ALPA uses professional negotiators and professional Economic & Financial Analysis experts who advise your pilot leaders. Almost always, the pilot leaders are more aggressive than the professional advisers recommend.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that the pilots themselves aren’t also valuable professionals. Someone like @BobDDuck has been doing this for many years and knows this stuff inside and out. He likely knows contract negotiations better than you know flying.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Do you not understand that when ALPA makes recommendations it isn’t just coming from pilots? ALPA uses professional negotiators and professional Economic & Financial Analysis experts who advise your pilot leaders. Almost always, the pilot leaders are more aggressive than the professional advisers recommend.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that the pilots themselves aren’t also valuable professionals. Someone like @BobDDuck has been doing this for many years and knows this stuff inside and out. He likely knows contract negotiations better than you know flying.
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I’m not talking about ALPA. I’m talking about the people that voted yes, who were probably the loudest during the voting period that the economy was about to drop off a cliff.

It’s not my fault you keep misunderstanding what I’m trying to point out here. But I’ll try one last time:

I voted no because we have a limited window to make constructive gains while the airline capacity dynamic is in our favor. It we don’t take advantage of this time period we will forever lose what was lost in the 2000s and 2010s.

I’m proud of the UA pilots for saying FUPM. I hope the AA pilots do the same. This is a once in a career opportunity. Maybe one more chance in 2028 for AS. But we will always be 6th or 7th. Other than the beginning of next year.


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BEEF SUPREME said:
I’m not talking about ALPA. I’m talking about the people that voted yes, who were probably the loudest during the voting period that the economy was about to drop off a cliff.

It’s not my fault you keep misunderstanding what I’m trying to point out here. But I’ll try one last time:

I voted no because we have a limited window to make constructive gains while the airline capacity dynamic is in our favor. It we don’t take advantage of this time period we will forever lose what was lost in the 2000s and 2010s.

I’m proud of the UA pilots for saying FUPM. I hope the AA pilots do the same. This is a once in a career opportunity. Maybe one more chance in 2028 for AS. But we will always be 6th or 7th. Other than the beginning of next year.


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The APA BOD shot it down 15-5 this morning.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I voted no because we have a limited window to make constructive gains while the airline capacity dynamic is in our favor. It we don’t take advantage of this time period we will forever lose what was lost in the 2000s and 2010s.
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I appreciate you writing more clearly where you were coming from.

That said, lots of people who were there for the 2000s and 2010s were agreement that even if most of your pilot group stamped their feet and said no, the time it would take to get another deal (regardless of the forward going economy) and the value of another deal, wouldn't make it worth it. The difference between Alaska's deal and United's (and to a small extent American's) is that the value isn't in the rate libs. It's in scope and work rules and benefits.
 
BobDDuck said:
I appreciate you writing more clearly where you were coming from.

That said, lots of people who were there for the 2000s and 2010s were agreement that even if most of your pilot group stamped their feet and said no, the time it would take to get another deal (regardless of the forward going economy) and the value of another deal, wouldn't make it worth it. The difference between Alaska's deal and United's (and to a small extent American's) is that the value isn't in the rate libs. It's in scope and work rules and benefits.
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This. I don’t think the 18% really understand (or care) that it wasn’t just our pilots, but the ALPA EFA team that runs full analysis on a gambit of different items. It is literally their job. They said this 3 yr agreement represents about $1 billion in gains for the pilot group. And reading between the lines, I took it as a “this is a good deal to accept right now, and about what you can expect with the current leverage in the current and expected market conditions.”
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
When you constantly have people “misunderstanding“ you, maybe you need to consider that they aren’t the problem.
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