New Alaska TA

[BEEF SUPREME]

I appreciate you writing more clearly where you were coming from.

That said, lots of people who were there for the 2000s and 2010s were agreement that even if most of your pilot group stamped their feet and said no, the time it would take to get another deal (regardless of the forward going economy) and the value of another deal, wouldn't make it worth it. The difference between Alaska's deal and United's (and to a small extent American's) is that the value isn't in the rate libs. It's in scope and work rules and benefits.

At least someone here can admit the economic future some have been so loud about isn’t necessarily happening.

It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. I’m predicting increased attrition after the bonus “retro”
payout. It will continue to increase when we can’t staff the QOL improvements in 2023.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

At least someone here can admit the economic future some have been so loud about isn’t necessarily happening.

It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. I’m predicting increased attrition after the bonus “retro”
payout. It will continue to increase when we can’t staff the QOL improvements in 2023.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A problem you will see at ANY passenger carrier that isn’t the big 3. And also worth repeating, their hiring is NOT your problem.

 

[alaskadrifter]

Given that airline life is dictated by seniority I don’t think pilots leaving AS will stick around for a bonus when having a higher seniority elsewhere might mean making many multiples of the bonus over the course of a career. I certainly could be wrong though since people make life decisions based on a myriad of personal reasons.
As far as leverage goes according to the union’s attrition numbers the pilot group is still net +200 on the year so far. If the Big 3, WN, FX/UPS, etc. hire large numbers of AS pilots the calculus on the unions leverage and everyone’s QOL will change of course. My guess is attrition and AS hiring will both slow down over the holiday season, and then tick back up in January through the run up summer. I think the union got the best deal they could have hopped for given the asks of the pilot group and the timing in the conga line. Take my opinion with a healthy grain of salt.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

A problem you will see at ANY passenger carrier that isn’t the big 3. And also worth repeating, their hiring is NOT your problem.

Cancellations weren’t fun back in April and last year in December. That definitely was my problem.

The short staffed training department that is working overtime was an issue as well for me last year. Not looking forward to it this year either.

There are many more examples but this definitely will be a problem. For some of us more than others.

If we had as the pilot group, not the negotiation team pushed harder for a better contract none of this would be a problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JDean3204]

Cancellations weren’t fun back in April and last year in December. That definitely was my problem.

The short staffed training department that is working overtime was an issue as well for me last year. Not looking forward to it this year either.

There are many more examples but this definitely will be a problem. For some of us more than others.

If we had as the pilot group, not the negotiation team pushed harder for a better contract none of this would be a problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well don’t take this the wrong way, but if you hate it there why don’t you just leave? I mean as you know, everywhere is hiring.

The same situation but worse is happening at my place, even to the point that I kick around the idea of going back to the airlines (trust me things have to be reeaalllyy bad for me thinking the daily terminal shuffle sounds appealing). At the end of the day, you won’t be able to control hiring and attrition, you won’t be able to control the consequences of the understaffed environment, you’re only one pilot out of thousands with a vote and you only control your decision to stay or go. I hope to not offend by saying that..

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Cancellations weren’t fun back in April and last year in December. That definitely was my problem.

The short staffed training department that is working overtime was an issue as well for me last year. Not looking forward to it this year either.

There are many more examples but this definitely will be a problem. For some of us more than others.

If we had as the pilot group, not the negotiation team pushed harder for a better contract none of this would be a problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The problem is, your definition of “better” would not match another 18 percenter definition of better. There was no way to define what was exactly an issue to hardstand on. Some said no to below 320 at DOS. Some said no unless reserves get min 13 off. There is no unity in that sense. What would have made you happy to make it a yes? And would those items match another person’s desire?


Look, here’s the reality. AS has structural issues from a pilot career standpoint. AS is basically a 737-only airline, North America only, no international overseas, 5 bases which are ALL on the geographic west coast next to the Pacific Ocean, and a young pilot group that will only retire ~1/3 of the list in the next 10 years.

Why should a newbie come here? Unless they are looking for ANC or PDX for a pax carrier, and maybe SEA for the HQ base. I maintain that no matter how good the contract was, you cannot fix the structural issues written above.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

The problem is, your definition of “better” would not match another 18 percenter definition of better. There was no way to define what was exactly an issue to hardstand on. Some said no to below 320 at DOS. Some said no unless reserves get min 13 off. There is no unity in that sense. What would have made you happy to make it a yes? And would those items match another person’s desire?


Look, here’s the reality. AS has structural issues from a pilot career standpoint. AS is basically a 737-only airline, North America only, no international overseas, 5 bases which are ALL on the geographic west coast next to the Pacific Ocean, and a young pilot group that will only retire ~1/3 of the list in the next 10 years.

Why should a newbie come here? Unless they are looking for ANC or PDX for a pax carrier, and maybe SEA for the HQ base. I maintain that no matter how good the contract was, you cannot fix the structural issues written above.

You keep saying that but it’s honestly what made the airline so appealing. I’d done a lot of international corporate flying and Eskimo appealed to me because of the shorter legs and relative lack of switching time zones.

This seems like an impossible thing for you to grasp but not everyone thinks like you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You keep saying that but it’s honestly what made the airline so appealing. I’d done a lot of international corporate flying and Eskimo appealed to me because of the shorter legs and relative lack of switching time zones.

This seems like an impossible thing for you to grasp but not everyone thinks like you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well you do you.

If I was a young buck starting out now, I’d leave in a heartbeat for the big 3. Your “appeal” is also available at the big 3. They have TONS of similar flying as you do now. Difference is, should your desires change down the road, you can switch fleets and do international. I’ll retire in the 737 MAX, assuming a standalone airline. As will you.

Sorry, but there’s no logical reason unless it’s for a specific base (ANC, SEA, PDX). Your reason to stays here are available at each of the big 3. Domestic short haul 737 and 320. Delta even has a SEA base.

 

[mikecweb]

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Well you do you.

If I was a young buck starting out now, I’d leave in a heartbeat for the big 3. Your “appeal” is also available at the big 3. They have TONS of similar flying as you do now. Difference is, should your desires change down the road, you can switch fleets and do international. I’ll retire in the 737 MAX, assuming a standalone airline. As will you.

Sorry, but there’s no logical reason unless it’s for a specific base (ANC, SEA, PDX). Your reason to stays here are available at each of the big 3. Domestic short haul 737 and 320. Delta even has a SEA base.

If I could have gotten hired at United in 2011-2019 when I was applying I would have gone.

I’m not about to give up 5 years of seniority. Which answers an above poster’s question about why I just don’t work somewhere else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

If I could have gotten hired at United in 2011-2019 when I was applying I would have gone.

I’m not about to give up 5 years of seniority. Which answers an above poster’s question about why I just don’t work somewhere else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There you go. And this is why AS will manage. They don’t have to worry about too many 4+ yr guys. Just the newbies that are sub 3 yrs. You’re not gonna be able to keep them all, but that’s their problem to figure out.

 

[JDean3204]

If I could have gotten hired at United in 2011-2019 when I was applying I would have gone.

I’m not about to give up 5 years of seniority. Which answers an above poster’s question about why I just don’t work somewhere else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Noted….

Then just enjoy the ride man, you know you’re not going anywhere. Look at a few other people not in aviation right now a few times a day, that single mom struggling to pay for her groceries, the people checking you into your hotel or driving your shuttle, even the people towing your plane back and know you’re doing well for yourself with gratitude. I know you just want the best for the pilot group, but calling others out and flicking turd doesn’t solve it man. That just raises your blood pressure and makes you a bummer to be around.

I’ll show myself the door now.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Noted….

Then just enjoy the ride man, you know you’re not going anywhere. Look at a few other people not in aviation right now a few times a day, that single mom struggling to pay for her groceries, the people checking you into your hotel or driving your shuttle, even the people towing your plane back and know you’re doing well for yourself with gratitude. I know you just want the best for the pilot group, but calling others out and flicking turd doesn’t solve it man. That just raises your blood pressure and makes you a bummer to be around.

I’ll show myself the door now.

Have you ever been around me? If you don't like what I post put me on your ignore list. This isn't hard.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

 

[One&Done]

Noted….

Then just enjoy the ride man, you know you’re not going anywhere. Look at a few other people not in aviation right now a few times a day, that single mom struggling to pay for her groceries, the people checking you into your hotel or driving your shuttle, even the people towing your plane back and know you’re doing well for yourself with gratitude. I know you just want the best for the pilot group, but calling others out and flicking turd doesn’t solve it man. That just raises your blood pressure and makes you a bummer to be around.

I’ll show myself the door now.

Serial complain artist….the company could give them everything they could ever want on a silver platter, and they’d still complain.
It’s unfortunate that some can’t see the bright side of things, and must always dwell on the negatives.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Serial complain artist….the company could give them everything they could ever want on a silver platter, and they’d still complain.
It’s unfortunate that some can’t see the bright side of things, and must always dwell on the negatives.

I'm not going to compare myself to a ramper or van driver. Sorry. I've done all those things while building skills and bettering myself to become a professional pilot. Skills that can't be automated and no one other than experienced professionals can do. The only thing that is stopping us from being treated like professionals is not having any self-worth.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I'm not going to compare myself to a ramper or van driver. Sorry. I've done all those things while building skills and bettering myself to become a professional pilot. Skills that can't be automated and no one other than experienced professionals can do. The only thing that is stopping us from being treated like professionals is not having any self-worth.

True. But I think he meant that, pre contract, me beotching about making $315-320k when my counterparts at Delta make on the same equipment about $330-350k is going to fall on some deaf ears and/or result in a musical consisting of the world’s smallest violin.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

True. But I think he meant that, pre contract, me beotching about making $315-320k when my counterparts at Delta make on the same equipment about $330-350k is going to fall on some deaf ears and/or result in a musical consisting of the world’s smallest violin.

I guess it depends on the people you surround yourself with. Single moms and van drivers aren't in my circle. Very successful people that ride mountain bikes are. They bitch more about costs and salary than I do and make a lot more money too.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I guess it depends on the people you surround yourself with. Single moms and van drivers aren't in my circle. Very successful people that ride mountain bikes are. They bitch more about costs and salary than I do and make a lot more money too.

You need better acquaintances. You know, something more than just the rich French poodle and bicycle club. But look at the bright side, if you are hanging out in that circle then you “made it.” Thank AS for it.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I guess it depends on the people you surround yourself with. Single moms and van drivers aren't in my circle. Very successful people that ride mountain bikes are. They bitch more about costs and salary than I do and make a lot more money too.

Sounds like you should stop hanging out with so many d-bags.