Spirit and Frontier to Merge

[Minuteman]

My bet: gonna be a whole bunch of cloying variations of "Yellow and Blue makes $Green$" in the coming year.

 

[MikeD]

My bet: gonna be a whole bunch of cloying variations of "Yellow and Blue makes $Green$" in the coming year.

better trademark that right now!

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I gotta ask, how did you determine that NK pilots are going to take a big hit? I’m not super knowledgeable about ALPA’s merger policy but it’s supposed to be a mix of DOH and career expectations correct? I would expect anyone who’s been at NK more than 5 years should actually do pretty decent but then again, I really don’t know what I’m talking about.

ALPA Merger Policy is basically a mix of category and status, career expectations, and longevity. In other words, we watered it down so much after the USAir/AmWest merger that it’s useless, and the arbitrators can pretty much do whatever they want. Terrible decision, but the EXBD was spooked hardcore by what happened with the loss of Airways, and nobody had the cajones to just say that the Airways guys were petulant babies whose outburst should be ignored.

 

[HRDiva]

Fairly easy seniority integration right? Both airlines been around about the same time I think.

Spirit started in 1990. But to put it in perspective, when lostplanetairman retired 5 years ago he was #190 (do the math on the birthday he just had!). The #1 pilot retired the end of May. They hired a bunch in the late 1990’s and in 2000-8/27/2001 (lostplanetairman’s class). Then, for obvious reasons, hiring stopped for a few months.

So there aren’t that many from before B6 was founded to make a dent in the process.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You’re not right about anything here. Your claim that the board has a responsibility to accept the highest monetary offer is still incorrect.

Fiduciary responsibility is still a thing. I literally got literature mailed by these people aging the combined company and stock “could” hit $40 in a few years. Seriously?

This is one of those rare times what the BOD wanted was NOT in the financial interest of SAVE stockholders. We voted as shareholders and said no to Frontier.

Lets be honest. The F9 deal was NOT the highest payout for investors. Everything the Spirit board tried to sell F9 was with the long term prospects of F9/SAVE and how the stock price “could” go to $40 down the road. That’s all forward looking speculation! It could go to 40. Or 50. Or it could go tits up and crash to $5.

Unknown. What IS known is $33.50 /share is guaranteed by JetBlue AND on the table now. Of course, the merger still has to be approved and close. But once that’s done, there is a known quantity coming. And after that, SAVE investors are cashed out. They can choose to reinvest or walk with the cash.

I’ll walk with the cash.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

ALPA Merger Policy is basically a mix of category and status, career expectations, and longevity. In other words, we watered it down so much after the USAir/AmWest merger that it’s useless, and the arbitrators can pretty much do whatever they want. Terrible decision, but the EXBD was spooked hardcore by what happened with the loss of Airways, and nobody had the cajones to just say that the Airways guys were petulant babies whose outburst should be ignored.

A lot of people at AS/VX it would go 15 longevity and 85 stat/cat. In the end it was 60 longevity and 40 stat/cat.

Anything goes. I told guys you’d be delusional to think a 2007 VX hire would find himself next to a 1979 AS hire. Or even an 1980s hire. No VX guy in the top 500, and that’s exactly how it played out.

The good thing about JetBlue and Spirit is they are not long term legacy carriers. JetBlue most senior around 2000 hires. Spirit has some in the 90s I assume. It should funnel fairly closet for most people. You’re probably still going to see some actual DOH disparity slotted together, eg, a 2008 hire with a 2012 hire. But in the end, I see a pretty good SLI outcome. IMHO.

Just curious, where is the 10 yr mark at JetBlue and Spirit? So say a 2012 hire is what % overall at each airline?

 

[Box hauler]

Fiduciary responsibility is still a thing. I literally got literature mailed by these people aging the combined company and stock “could” hit $40 in a few years. Seriously?

This is one of those rare times what the BOD wanted was NOT in the financial interest of SAVE stockholders. We voted as shareholders and said no to Frontier.

Lets be honest. The F9 deal was NOT the highest payout for investors. Everything the Spirit board tried to sell F9 was with the long term prospects of F9/SAVE and how the stock price “could” go to $40 down the road. That’s all forward looking speculation! It could go to 40. Or 50. Or it could go tits up and crash to $5.

Unknown. What IS known is $33.50 /share is guaranteed by JetBlue AND on the table now. Of course, the merger still has to be approved and close. But once that’s done, there is a known quantity coming. And after that, SAVE investors are cashed out. They can choose to reinvest or walk with the cash.

I’ll walk with the cash.

Can’t argue with any of that.

 

[HRDiva]

A lot of people at AS/VX it would go 15 longevity and 85 stat/cat. In the end it was 60 longevity and 40 stat/cat.

Anything goes. I told guys you’d be delusional to think a 2007 VX hire would find himself next to a 1979 AS hire. Or even an 1980s hire. No VX guy in the top 500, and that’s exactly how it played out.

The good thing about JetBlue and Spirit is they are not long term legacy carriers. JetBlue most senior around 2000 hires. Spirit has some in the 90s I assume. It should funnel fairly closet for most people. You’re probably still going to see some actual DOH disparity slotted together, eg, a 2008 hire with a 2012 hire. But in the end, I see a pretty good SLI outcome. IMHO.

Just curious, where is the 10 yr mark at JetBlue and Spirit? So say a 2012 hire is what % overall at each airline?

You missed my recent post.
Spirit began to hire aggressively after the strike settled in September, 2010, while most airlines were relatively stagnant.
Here is my prior post you missed:


Spirit started in 1990. But to put it in perspective, when lostplanetairman retired 5 years ago he was #190 (do the math on the birthday he just had!). The #1 pilot retired the end of May. They hired a bunch in the late 1990’s and in 2000-8/27/2001 (lostplanetairman’s class). Then, for obvious reasons, hiring stopped for a few months.

So there aren’t that many from before B6 was founded to make a dent in the process.

 

[CFIscare]

You missed my recent post.
Spirit began to hire aggressively after the strike settled in September, 2010, while most airlines were relatively stagnant.
Here is my prior post you missed:


Spirit started in 1990. But to put it in perspective, when lostplanetairman retired 5 years ago he was #190 (do the math on the birthday he just had!). The #1 pilot retired the end of May. They hired a bunch in the late 1990’s and in 2000-8/27/2001 (lostplanetairman’s class). Then, for obvious reasons, hiring stopped for a few months.

So there aren’t that many from before B6 was founded to make a dent in the process.

Isn’t that what he was saying?

 

[HRDiva]

Isn’t that what he was saying?

No, he said he assumed. He didn’t read my post. It’s okay.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

View attachment 66069
View attachment 66070

That’s a picture of Ted Christie? Looks like a guy you would regret going bear hunting with.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

No, he said he assumed. He didn’t read my post. It’s okay.

Sorry, you’re right. I saw his post and responded. I hadn’t yet read the whole thread. Hold on I’ll go through it all.

 

[roundout]

Yeah not an easy decision, but when the wife is sick of 12 years of commuting…had to make a change…also DFW to MIA is not an easy commute

Agree, I've done it at two different airlines and it sucks. Hope everything works out. I've been considering pulling the plug as well but can't stomach starting over from the current pay and seniority.

 

[roundout]

I’ll walk with the cash.

Don't spend it all in one place.

 

[turbojet28]

I’m not a very smart guy when it comes to this stuff, but is this JetBlue deal really all that great? From my reading it sounds like it will be a minimum of at least first half of 2024 before this deal closes and anyone gets their cash, other than the upfront $2.50 plus the little ticking fee.

Am I correct in assuming this deal will essentially cap SAVE stock price at near $33.50 until the deal closes or falls apart, which again could be well into 2024? And all this to be left with a company that faces a difficult operational integration.

Im not necessarily saying that this wasn’t a better deal than Frontier, but it just seems kind of mediocre to be honest, especially when considering Spirit was trading ~$40-50 pre-pandemic.

 

[upup89]

I’m not a very smart guy when it comes to this stuff, but is this JetBlue deal really all that great? From my reading it sounds like it will be a minimum of at least first half of 2024 before this deal closes and anyone gets their cash, other than the upfront $2.50 plus the little ticking fee.

Am I correct in assuming this deal will essentially cap SAVE stock price at near $33.50 until the deal closes or falls apart, which again could be well into 2024? And all this to be left with a company that faces a difficult operational integration.

Im not necessarily saying that this wasn’t a better deal than Frontier, but it just seems kind of mediocre to be honest, especially when considering Spirit was trading ~$40-50 pre-pandemic.

I tend to agree with you. The extra time this deal will take never made much sense to me all because JetBlue is already in a fight with the DOJ over the American deal. Then as soon as that is over Blue is going to have to go back to the same people and ask for their blessing to have more.

I fear JetBlue views this as spending $450 million dollars for NK/F9 to not get together. I'm certainly hoping this all goes through and NK/JB guys get an industry leading contract. Its just gonna take awhile.

 

[skypilot6]

I gotta ask, how did you determine that NK pilots are going to take a big hit? I’m not super knowledgeable about ALPA’s merger policy but it’s supposed to be a mix of DOH and career expectations correct? I would expect anyone who’s been at NK more than 5 years should actually do pretty decent but then again, I really don’t know what I’m talking about.

There were several lists floating around a while back when the first offer was announced, the 17% hit for me was DOH, the 5% was based off the AK/VX SLI ratios which was slightly better than Relative Seniority. In any situation with either F9 or B6 using ANY metric on these lists I was going to lose Seniority. I realize our SLI could be very different but there was a big hiring boom when I got on and I got on right in the middle.

But hey as long as everyone is unhappy they did right! Right?

 

[CFIT99]

Agree, I've done it at two different airlines and it sucks. Hope everything works out. I've been considering pulling the plug as well but can't stomach starting over from the current pay and seniority.

yeah it was a tough choice, it helps that my wife has a career and does well. Did the math and I can suck it up for a year.

also got the email last night and I start in 2 weeks. (I like working at frontier but commuting to reserve is making me not enjoy life)

 

[ASpilot2be]

yeah it was a tough choice, it helps that my wife has a career and does well. Did the math and I can suck it up for a year.

also got the email last night and I start in 2 weeks. (I like working at frontier but commuting to reserve is making me not enjoy life)

Congrats! Sad to see you go.

 

[HJB]

yeah it was a tough choice, it helps that my wife has a career and does well. Did the math and I can suck it up for a year.

also got the email last night and I start in 2 weeks. (I like working at frontier but commuting to reserve is making me not enjoy life)

Frontier seems to be doing a lot of flying out of DFW. No talk of it becoming a base? Congrats!