Oh Alaska(n)
- Thread starter BobDDuck
- Start date
Also, his "techniques/tricks" for crediting 127 and flying 12 days amount to nothing more than dropping regular trips to pick up premium, jumpseating day-of instead of taking a DH the previous/following day, and being lucky enough to have had a lot of stuff cancel for no FO and not being reassigned. Not really "techniques" as much as "getting extremely lucky one month because this operation is a smoking tire fire and padding that luck with premium."
This place is a laughingstock.
This place is a laughingstock.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
No, it was seeing how schedules are. Not pay. You conflated those two. I said I’ve seen Delta schedules and wasn’t impressed (those were my words). I keep hearing AS has the worst schedules period, that’s why I’ve looked at other airline pilot schedules. I’ve asked buddies at Southwest (obviously in the 737) to see what their schedules are like too.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
You’re welcome, appreciate you sharing a *private* message with everyone. But since it’s out in the open now, one lucky month right? January was 117.1 , Feb 93.3 , March 96.3 , April 127.7 , and May so far 97:47 credit.
None of these months flew more than 15-16 days. Oh I’m sorry, I’m supposed to say “this place and its schedules suck!” and join you in your misery.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Repeat after me: “This job could be a lot better with a market rate contract. The schedules could be a lot better.
We are trying to make it better. We are not complaining we want things to be more competitive and aligned with our peers.
Letting potential hires know about the systemic issues at Alaska is not complaining. It is informative.”
That is my goal as an ALPA volunteer. I’m trying to help you.
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Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Could* be. Key word.
Look, I'm not an ALPA kool aid drinker. Quite frankly, I think the payrates we asked for are the moon but the actual schedule/work rules are an ABSOLUTE joke. I'm embarrassed that is what we proposed. One small example, ALPA proposed reserve days off by making some weak WOCL excuse is a joke.
Agreeing to PBS through some future LOA BS is something that should not fly.
The scary part is, other than the to-the-moon payrates, the company is saying no to the ALPA proposal. Heck, I'd lock that deal in if I was management because of how crappy it really is.
Look, I'm not an ALPA kool aid drinker. Quite frankly, I think the payrates we asked for are the moon but the actual schedule/work rules are an ABSOLUTE joke. I'm embarrassed that is what we proposed. One small example, ALPA proposed reserve days off by making some weak WOCL excuse is a joke.
Agreeing to PBS through some future LOA BS is something that should not fly.
The scary part is, other than the to-the-moon payrates, the company is saying no to the ALPA proposal. Heck, I'd lock that deal in if I was management because of how crappy it really is.
Didn’t you guys ask for market rate back in ‘05, and an arbitrator said “well, UAL is bankrupt, so here’s your rate to match their pay cuts.”.?
Skåning
Well-Known Member
Picking up premium pay in the middle of mediated contract negotiations breaking down. Classy.
Thank's for doing management's job for them.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
He didn't explain it well. Had a regular 2-day trip on a Monday-Tuesday. On the same two days, a two day popped up at Premium. Reserve coverage was good, so straight dropped my original two day trip and added the premium trip. I was working 2 days anyway - I just ended up working for a trip that paid more. Same thing happened again that week on a Thursday-Friday. Had a 2 day trip, good reserve coverage, yet they put a 2-day trip at premium. Same thing, straight dropped my original trip, added the premium. End result was I was still supposed to work two 2-day trips, except now at premium pay. They still had to cover my original two 2-day trips so nothing changed for them on their end.
And please, save your "classy" comments. After we get a TA, what do you think ALPA's going to do once we get the sign on bonus - the money which is in leiu of retro since April 1, 2020? I've seen this rodeo before. I made the mistake of not picking up at my last airline. Once the contract came 5 yrs past amendable date, we got the sign on bonus. Behold, the union tied it to W2 wages for the past 5 years. That's right, the more you earned, the more you got paid in the bonus sign on money. I listened to the CAs I flew with about not picking up open time, to stand strong, and yet at the end of it all, I got screwed as the union rewarded those who flew more, earned more, with a higher sign on bonus. You can fool me once - I won't be fooled again.
And also, I fly with tons of FOs who pick up premium. Literally tons. I do a lot of Mexican day trips and the only reason they never seem to cancel is some FO will always pick up a day trip at Premium. I franklky couldn't care less - they are simply exercising a contractual right.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
This is well before his time - and mine. But IIRC the story is that was the Kasher award. The AS pilots got screwed. One of the key benefits of line bidding (vacation touch drop WITH full pay for dropped trip) disappeared with Kasher. FO hourly rates were cut drastically, 1/3 if I remember correctly.
Bad times. But then again, in 2013 the AS pilots had the ball in their court. Yet they still screwed it up. The union made a time-money argument, sign this now, get more now, company says scope is non-negotiable, maybe we'll get a LOA someday, but sign this now. Contract 2013 was the $200/hr contract. 12th yr CA rate at $200. The pilots signed it.
I agree with all of this except I think the payrates are reasonable (and the number itself matters a lot less than the fact that they included a snap-up provision.)
The scheduling is an absolute embarrassment. For how much I've been told that "this company isn't special" they sure seem intent on keeping us special - as the only airline without calendar days off, commutable reserve, day off pickups for reserves, etc. Not to mention the only line bidding airline without pay protection for conflicts. Not to mention keeping cancelation makeup. Not to mention keeping the minimum of 5hrs late for compensation for reassignments. Etc. It's all garbage.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Have you written your rep and let them know your concerns?
We are ALPA we drive the agenda. Those who “complain” the most in the greatest number get their concerns on the agenda.
That’s how this works lads. You’re not a special snowflake. You write your rep or you don’t see the changes you want.
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We are ALPA we drive the agenda. Those who “complain” the most in the greatest number get their concerns on the agenda.
That’s how this works lads. You’re not a special snowflake. You write your rep or you don’t see the changes you want.
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No need to patronize me, of course I've written my rep. And spoken to him in person. And I've spoken with CG. And a high-ranking member of the MEC, who told me that if he were me he'd be thinking about going to Delta (I'm senior enough to upgrade here). How's that for an inspiring message?
They've collectively heard from me loud and clear and the resounding response is that people like me, who are disappointed enough to speak up, are the minority. Captains I fly with that have similar relative seniority to me, and therefore usually get a line that isn't THAT bad and will never see reserve again, seem surprised when they ask what I think and I tell them that the scheduling is laughably sub-"industry standard." People here who haven't worked for other airlines recently and have become comfortable with the status quo don't even know enough about the rest of the industry to know what they're missing.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
I wasn’t specifically asking you but CC as well. For a guy who won’t even participate in a picket with a day off he sure has strong opinions on our union.
It’s membership driven. But that means that in part it’s driven by you. Like it or not I guess.
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Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Yes, I’ve talked to my rep.
I did not have a day off. I had a 2-day trip on April 1-2. Then I had a personal situation at home in which I wasn’t going to be able to go to the airport on April 1.
You keep taking a tough game. Coming from a guy who threw a crew under the bus publicly on Alyeska. Called them out by name. That was a bold move, way to embolden yourself in the eyes of fellow pilots.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
And only you are still upset by it. The only bold thing that happening lately is that I boldly tell captains that I’m not in the cattle car business and my ancestors would be really upset with me if I treated people like they were treated. Then I turn the APU on.
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Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Yeah, you’re the problem. Your name spread around quick after that among CAs. I’m sure your corporate job had CAs who were anti Jewish, just as I’m sure you flew with ANC and SEA CAs who said nah we ain’t gonna deice and took off with ice on wings.
Of course, you bring up your ancestry - yet again.
No wonder you can’t wait to upgrade. As I had originally thought, the problem is you.
The right thing to do was to go speak with the crew. Or email them in private. Nah. Beef Supreme goes on the internal Alaska pilot forum and blasts the crew and personally calls them out by their real names as a way of shaming them. Real mature.
Your CRM sucks. It’s funny if you think I was the only one who noticed. Your name spread among CAs.
I’m trying to help you. Take it down a notch. Or two.
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roundout
VNAV monitor
to be fair, if everyone quits picking up, you’ll get slapped with a TRO. Edit: in an organized manner
See: Spirit ALPA, 2017
