Accelerating at 10,000'

[jynxyjoe]

Uhhh, I was answering the question you asked...

Dude, did you read my post and then go backwards. Because then you added " because you started the pecker measuring contest"?

I edit my post too but again, refer to what i replied to not what you cleaned it up to and then jumped back again to escalate.

Tell you what. Lemme know when you're done. Its late, ill look tomorrow.

 

[Adler]

Dude, did you read my post and then go backwards. Because then you added " because you started the pecker measuring contest"?

I edit my post too but again, refer to what i replied to not what you cleaned it up to and then jumped back again to escalate.

Tell you what. Lemme know when you're done. Its late, ill look tomorrow.

Serbian 3G internet.

I stand by everything I said. You started by saying we are being silly because it was a choice to not use the autopilot, not like your heroic experiences in the 1900 — you brought that up.

Then you asked another question, and I answered it.

Then you started attacking me, for being a bizarre narcissist.

And you’re offended that’s I called your post exactly what’s it was?

I’m about to start an looong day in the back of airplanes, so I guess I’m done being irrelevant now.

 

[Prino]

What is the expectation or rule with regards to climb rate as you accelerate at 10,000 feet? AIM 4-4-10 part d. mentions climbing at 500 to 1550 fpm the last 1000 feet of climb. It mentions that leveling off at 10,000 feet to slow on descent is OK. It also says that if you can't maintain a 500 fpm climb or descent to let ATC know.

At my first airline we were instructed to get the nose down and get to 310 knots by 11,000 feet. The check airman would give you a bit of grief if you didn't do it. At the second airline I noticed many pilots just kind of waffling up to climb speed. Sometimes we wouldn't reach 290 until 15,000 feet. It drove me nuts. Today, at the third and final shop, I lowered the nose at 10k to accelerate. I was doing anywhere from 400 to 700 fpm climb. ATC got a little testy and asked if I had leveled off. I checked all our manuals and the FAR/AIM and couldn't find an expectation other than those listed above. Thoughts, feelings, and opinions on the matter?

makes sense now why this 172 tells me today he can’t maintain 500’ a minute as if I cared .

As far as speeding up. The expectation is more dependent on the aircraft. Unless you were climbing/accelerating from 10-11 for 15 miles there’s no reason for atc to get testy. And even then there’s not a real reason for them to get testy.

A little heads up if you plan on staying at 250 above 10 (or even less than that on departure for turbulence) is always appreciated if you’re leaving a busy terminal area.

 

[Jordan93]

Once we hit 10K, VS mode +1000-1500fpm and accelerate to 290. I hate guys that keep it it speed mode and twist the knob to 290 because the airplane practically levels off then does this giant steep climb once the speed gets back. It’s just poor technique.

 

[Ajax]

I've never been asked if I've levelled or why I slowed the climb, occassionally I've been asked what I'm going to accelerate to or something. In these cases sometimes ATC might ask me to maintain an X ft/min climb until X altitude, in which case I'd probably VS it if I felt the need.

Once we hit 10K, VS mode +1000-1500fpm and accelerate to 290. I hate guys that keep it it speed mode and twist the knob to 290 because the airplane practically levels off then does this giant steep climb once the speed gets back. It’s just poor technique.

Some airplanes are better than others, but IMO the 145 sucked in speed mode. Crossing 10 I'd do just as you said, though IDR if it was 500 or 1000(been a few years) then I'd adjust the VS to continue a climb at roughly 290. Even if i got it on speed in the climb I would very rarely put it into speed mode because it was testy and would make, imo, too large of pitch changes for a negligible amount of speed. Rarely some CA's would fly it in pitch mode and move the rocker, I was never a fan of this technique, but I'm sure plenty of them preferred their technique to mine. I do/did what the FOM said, so absent a specific mode I did what I felt best to accomplish the goal.

On the light twin, I put it into VNAV and let it do all the work for me. As @ATN_Pilot said it's supposed to be the best for the fuel, my company tells me to do this and so long as the checks keep clearing I'll continue to fly their jet the way they tell me to. Maybe some of the pitch changes are a bit too large at times but it isn't that bad, and I haven't heard a single box complain yet.

 

[Jordan93]

Some airplanes are better than others, but IMO the 145 sucked in speed mode. Crossing 10 I'd do just as you said, though IDR if it was 500 or 1000(been a few years) then I'd adjust the VS to continue a climb at roughly 290. Even if i got it on speed in the climb I would very rarely put it into speed mode because it was testy and would make, imo, too large of pitch changes for a negligible amount of speed. Rarely some CA's would fly it in pitch mode and move the rocker, I was never a fan of this technique, but I'm sure plenty of them preferred their technique to mine. I do/did what the FOM said, so absent a specific mode I did what I felt best to accomplish the goal.

On the light twin, I put it into VNAV and let it do all the work for me. As @ATN_Pilot said it's supposed to be the best for the fuel, my company tells me to do this and so long as the checks keep clearing I'll continue to fly their jet the way they tell me to. Maybe some of the pitch changes are a bit too large at times but it isn't that bad, and I haven't heard a single box complain yet.

The CRJ sucks in speed mode. I rarely use pitch unless it’s really turbulent.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

CRJ speed mode works great if you combine it with TURB mode to reduce the sensitivity.

 

[trafficinsight]

CRJ speed mode works great if you combine it with TURB mode to reduce the sensitivity.

I actually found that made it more divergent.

I used pitch mode a lot honestly. There's really no replacement for just paying attention and flying the airplane.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[jynxyjoe]

I actually found that made it more divergent.

I used pitch mode a lot honestly. There's really no replacement for just paying attention and flying the airplane.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

The turb can bite you a little in cruise. If going over rockies or dealing with any wave crap, pitch really is the best.

 

[Alchemy]

VNAV if your airplane has it, otherwise we always used V/S 500-1000 fpm depending on how the airplane was performing (weight, temp, etc). Some guys insisted on using 600 or 1000 fpm because they thought they could get in trouble from ATC if they dropped below 500 fpm. Interesting (to me anyway) side note, in japan (and probably some other places) the 250 knot speed limit is 10,000 inclusive so you could get busted if your assigned altitude is 10,000 and you accelerated upon reaching during climb or failed to decelerate prior to reaching during descent.

 

[Roger Roger]

I mean, I think this whole thing is splitting hairs, but based on, well, basic attitude instrument flying I would say the smoothest and most efficient as far as minimal number of gross attitude changes would be to at 10k set pitch mode and set the pitch attitude to approximately what you know it will be at your desired climb speed (you do know what that should be at least to a horseshoes and hand grenades level of precision right?) then back to speed mode when you’re within a few knots of target speed. But I just fly a scummy turboprop and definitely didn’t sleep at a holiday inn last night.

 

[jynxyjoe]

VNAV if your airplane has it, otherwise we always used V/S 500-1000 fpm depending on how the airplane was performing (weight, temp, etc). Some guys insisted on using 600 or 1000 fpm because they thought they could get in trouble from ATC if they dropped below 500 fpm. Interesting (to me anyway) side note, in japan (and probably some other places) the 250 knot speed limit is 10,000 inclusive so you could get busted if your assigned altitude is 10,000 and you accelerated upon reaching during climb or failed to decelerate prior to reaching during descent.

Phht. I always liked Honduras and the islands because there was no 250 below 10. 315 at 3k and watch the vnav pitch up.

 

[mikecweb]

How I do it?
If I'm hand flying, which is usually the case at 10k, FPA to 1 degree ish until about 340kts then follow the bars back up to maintain 350 or whatever we're doing.
If the autoflight is engaged v/s to 500 then Prof.

 

[EIR]

Once we hit 10K, VS mode +1000-1500fpm and accelerate to 290. I hate guys that keep it it speed mode and twist the knob to 290 because the airplane practically levels off then does this giant steep climb once the speed gets back. It’s just poor technique.

That's dependent on the autopilot and airframe. It works great in the larger business jets I have flown.

 

[derg]

I haven’t seen any hard rule about 310 by 11000 and much to your LCA’s chagrin, there isn’t one.

Hit 10,000, accelerate to a cruise climb speed (in the reduced climb) and break into that sang’which you bought in the terminal.

Slow your descent approaching 10,000 to help slow, hopefully reaching 250 somewhere slightly above 10,000 and then put the sang’which away.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I haven’t seen any hard rule about 310 by 11000 and much to your LCA’s chagrin, there isn’t one.

Hit 10,000, accelerate to a cruise climb speed (in the reduced climb) and break into that sang’which you bought in the terminal.

Slow your descent approaching 10,000 to help slow, hopefully reaching 250 somewhere slightly above 10,000 and then put the sang’which away.

Eat slower gramps!

 

[JustinS]

Depends what the goal is. If my goal is fuel efficiency and/or keeping the climb going to get above weather, I hit 10,000' and continue at 250 KIAS to keep my vertical climb profile steep. Also our plane burns less fuel maintaining this profile up to mach transition. If I'm in a hurry to accelerate for either an ATC/SID restriction or to fly our fast profile, I'll pitch for 500-1000 FPM and accelerate to 290 KIAS then climb at that speed. 500 FPM is an acceptable climb rate or descent rate while changing speeds. I prefer to get to the speed I want to fly sooner than later as there is really no benefit to wallowing between the speed you started at and the speed you want in most cases. Wallowing in accelerating may allow you to burn slightly less fuel, but that's really about it. Wallowing in slowing down during approach can help keep your speed up a tad bit longer, however, it may also mess up ATC's spacing causing them to reassign you an even slower speed in the approach environment. Also in general, wallowing between speeds makes it more difficult for ATC to determine spacing both for departing and arriving. So that's another reason it's best to just get to the speed you need/want to be at sooner than later so as to not confuse ATC.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Just be happy you have a good job and remember that you’re basically the only one in the world who understands or cares.

Hey now, I give a good goddamn about good operating technique and smart, crisp operations too; don't be so hasty to generalize.

Lol. Come fly 1000 hours with no autopilot in 1900 in new england and then sit in the jumpseat while the big boys miss autopilot missed the altitude into boston on the vnav and they say to you "dumb thing always does that". You guys better learn someday, you're in the minority for a reason. There's no need to turn this stuff into astronaut camp, and youre not as good as you think you are. If you can't accept that learn to relax a little.

I thought only Aeromexico/Mexicana were allowed to answer "eh sometime we do, some time we don't" to "are you gonna make FUKYU at 11,000?"

Depends what the goal is. If my goal is fuel efficiency and/or keeping the climb going to get above weather, I hit 10,000' and continue at 250 KIAS to keep my vertical climb profile steep. Also our plane burns less fuel maintaining this profile up to mach transition. If I'm in a hurry to accelerate for either an ATC/SID restriction or to fly our fast profile, I'll pitch for 500-1000 FPM and accelerate to 290 KIAS then climb at that speed. 500 FPM is an acceptable climb rate or descent rate while changing speeds. I prefer to get to the speed I want to fly sooner than later as there is really no benefit to wallowing between the speed you started at and the speed you want in most cases. Wallowing in accelerating may allow you to burn slightly less fuel, but that's really about it. Wallowing in slowing down during approach can help keep your speed up a tad bit longer, however, it may also mess up ATC's spacing causing them to reassign you an even slower speed in the approach environment. Also in general, wallowing between speeds makes it more difficult for ATC to determine spacing both for departing and arriving. So that's another reason it's best to just get to the speed you need/want to be at sooner than later so as to not confuse ATC.

Manage deceleration such that you can do it all at once at idle and you've saved a significant amount of fuel. Especially if you multiply that by the 2,500+ daily departures.

Or you can slow to 200 knots 20 miles from the airport then dirty up and drag it in because "someone" in training said to do it that way.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I thought only Aeromexico/Mexicana were allowed to answer "eh sometime we do, some time we don't" to "are you gonna make FUKYU at 11,000?"
.

"How about, "do you need the altitude at ASHAT?" "Yeah" "Well life is full of disappointments." NWA into boston or nyc cant remember. Back in 'nam.

 

[pete2800]

All I'm saying is there should be some precision in the acceleration at 10,000 feet.

Why? Unless you've been issued a speed restriction, whatever technique is used is okay. If it's your leg, do your thing. If it's the other guy's leg, let him do his. I've seen people use VNAV, CWS pitch, VS, etc. It's all the same except for a few knots or a few hundred feet.