American orders 47 787’s

L-16B said:
Yeah it looks promising for the airbus narrowbodies in the revised plan today.... plus a supposed used 319 delivery via frontier rumored to be 9-12ish airframes.
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Care to give details on the new revised plan? Or did I miss a news article today?
 
learhawkerbe400 said:
Yep 767s mostly gone by end of 2020. And keeping the 9 330-900s. So even more swapping of g3 for g4.

But how bet that debt load?!?! Amirite??!?!!
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I don’t like the debt at all, but the bright side is they strategically added it when the economy was down and got amazing rates on it. The fleet modernization is huge and costs money regardless. Now if we could just stop stock buybacks we would have paid off over half the debt. I’m not a finance guru so I don’t understand the buybacks but all of the big three are doing them.
 
ChasenSFO said:
When I was younger and first started flying and was hard core into flightsim, I always thought that the Airbus was lame and Boeing jets were real planes. A decade or so later, given the choice, I'd want to show up and do the easiest job in the most comfortable space I can be stuck in for hours and get my "I'm an aviator" fix from GA or aerobatic planes on my own time. The 787 is cool and all, but I totally understand why so many guys on here would rather fly the Airbus.
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There has definitely been a major shift on this board from 5-10 years ago to now. Before it was "Airbus is the devil! They are subsidized by the government and don't play fair! Their planes are plastic pieces of junk! If it ain't Boeing, blah blah"

That sure has seen a 180 degree shift with guys here.
 
MikeD said:
There has definitely been a major shift on this board from 5-10 years ago to now. Before it was "Airbus is the devil! They are subsidized by the government and don't play fair! Their planes are plastic pieces of junk! If it ain't Boeing, blah blah"

That sure has seen a 180 degree shift with guys here.
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Well, every mechanic I’ve talked to that works them still says Airbus are plastic junk.

But that’s not something pilots care much about when they’re eating off that sweet sweet tray table.
 
Roger Roger said:
Well, every mechanic I’ve talked to that works them still says Airbus are plastic junk.

But that’s not something pilots care much about when they’re eating off that sweet sweet tray table.
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The tray table gets the most talk and it’s part of it...but it’s also about the comfortable seat, the ample bag space for crew and Jumpseaters alike, nice carepet floors, coat closet etc
 
L-16B said:
I don’t like the debt at all, but the bright side is they strategically added it when the economy was down and got amazing rates on it. The fleet modernization is huge and costs money regardless. Now if we could just stop stock buybacks we would have paid off over half the debt. I’m not a finance guru so I don’t understand the buybacks but all of the big three are doing them.
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AAL is being run like a Private Equity shop - take cheap debt while they can / could, and use it to fund every dollar of the share repurchase program (in reality they used it to buy the airplanes, but then used their excess cash after that to repurchase the shares...so what actually happened is they funded the share repurchases with the large amount of debt).

If the industry truly is reformed (a big if), it will have been a brilliant tactic by AA. Think of the share repurchase this way: at the moment, all of the airlines trade at tremendously cheap values relative to the rest of the stock market because of the historic stigma. So AAL is betting that in the mid-to-long run, the market will realize that the industry is "fixed" and the stocks will begin to trade more like the rest of the market. If that ends up being true, the potential unlocked value in airline stocks would be a far superior return than simply continuing to grow or investing in the product (potentially much higher). If the industry truly isnt reformed, and we have another round of bankruptcies, AAL will have wished they hadn't taken on all of that debt and hadn't spent as much in share repurchases.

It's a bit simplistic of a way to think about it, but as a company you are always seeking what generates the best returns: growing the airline/investing in the product, buying back your shares, or repaying your debt.

I see this fleet move as really nothing more than overall fleet simplification for American, not really an Airbus vs. Boeing (or A350/A330 vs. 787) debacle. American already has more 787's than A330's, and they are newer, so it makes sense to stick with that type and begin consolidating. I think they will eventually be an A319/738/A321 narrowbody operator, and 787/777 widebody operator. Lots of savings to be had by reducing all the overlapping fleet types.
 
Roger Roger said:
Well, every mechanic I’ve talked to that works them still says Airbus are plastic junk.

But that’s not something pilots care much about when they’re eating off that sweet sweet tray table.
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I flew a 27 year old 320 the other day. The 737s and Douglases delivered at the same time have all been parked, while this one has years left. They all said they were plastic and throw away jets when the 320 was delivered. That's some high freaking grade plastic!
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
I flew a 27 year old 320 the other day. The 737s and Douglases delivered at the same time have all been parked, while this one has years left.
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You sure about that? I fly Douglases at the same company that are older than 27 years. Plane I flew yesterday was delivered to Delta in 1987. That makes it 31 years old. Plus, it was upgraded with the ADS-B transponder. Supposedly those planes will be around til 2025.
 
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PeanuckleCRJ said:
I flew a 27 year old 320 the other day. The 737s and Douglases delivered at the same time have all been parked, while this one has years left. They all said they were plastic and throw away jets when the 320 was delivered. That's some high freaking grade plastic!
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Hey man, I figure the guys that get all into the guts of em doing structures work would know. I’m sure you’re well aware that that’s just a tiny bit of what the money men look at when it comes to deciding which aircraft hit the desert. And for all I know, with modern CAD techniques etc the new Boeings are probably build the same way-just strong enough. Not like the olden days when they could serve for a couple decades in pax service and still have the fatigue life left to be resurrected as ice haulers in the belt.
 
Roger Roger said:
Hey man, I figure the guys that get all into the guts of em doing structures work would know. I’m sure you’re well aware that that’s just a tiny bit of what the money men look at when it comes to deciding which aircraft hit the desert. And for all I know, with modern CAD techniques etc the new Boeings are probably build the same way-just strong enough. Not like the olden days when they could serve for a couple decades in pax service and still have the fatigue life left to be resurrected as ice haulers in the belt.
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1981 737-200 going strong in 121 at TUS
 
Roger Roger said:
Hey man, I figure the guys that get all into the guts of em doing structures work would know. I’m sure you’re well aware that that’s just a tiny bit of what the money men look at when it comes to deciding which aircraft hit the desert. And for all I know, with modern CAD techniques etc the new Boeings are probably build the same way-just strong enough. Not like the olden days when they could serve for a couple decades in pax service and still have the fatigue life left to be resurrected as ice haulers in the belt.
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You'd be surprised how little they do know. There is sort of an area focus and serious bias that goes on with that culture. It's about as bad as Ford vs. Chevy at times with them.
 
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