Some post career fair observations from a friend

FL350 said:
Well that definitely makes me feel better about my time with the recruiter.
Great experience all around, especially for my first time at a career fair like this.
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You filled out the survey, yes?
 
@Derg I just filled it out as well, for some reason the email linked to the https site... the https site wouldn't work, but pulling it up non-secure redirected me properly.
 
Derg said:
SouthernJets "self insures" with UHC as the coordinator. If we had Dr. Pepper onboard, everyone, including myself, would have Type II Diabetes because would command "BRING THEE DR. PEPPER. DO THIS NAO!" every leg.
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"You, Dr. Pepper, are a TRUE friend of the crown!"

"Dilly Dilly!"
 
bLizZuE said:
Also, if you work at a Delta connection carrier, don’t call in sick for a job fair.
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Back in the dark ages, when I interviewed, after it was all over, I was passing through the crew room on the way home. CP sticks his head out the door and says, “Congratulations!”
I answered, “For what?” No one, except my wife know I was interviewing.

He gave me a “get real” look and said, “They called me yesterday and asked about you.”

Aviation is a small, small world.
 
IMG_0316.jpg
 
Cptnchia said:
Back in the dark ages, when I interviewed, after it was all over, I was passing through the crew room on the way home. CP sticks his head out the door and says, “Congratulations!”
I answered, “For what?” No one, except my wife know I was interviewing.

He gave me a “get real” look and said, “They called me yesterday and asked about you.”

Aviation is a small, small world.
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Ya, well not as small as this carrier is trying to lead people to believe.
 
Derg said:
Easy on the "time grids". Total time, PIC, PIC turbine, fixed wing (if you're a helo guy), turbine time is more than fine. Cross country, instrument, cross country, actual, simulated, number of approaches and "Have operaated high performance aircraft in challenging airspace throughout the CONUS and carribean with a stellar track record and thirst to succeed" is wholly unnecessary.
Remember your elevator pitch during chance encounters.
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Opinion: Most formal recruiting situations find us time constrained, a wee tad frenzied, and a bit stilted - on both sides of the table. They remind me a bit of speed dating. My best experiences - from both sides of the table - in these situations is to be completely authentic while displaying a good dose of dispassion and disinterest (not un-interest). It's very much like a sales call or a golf game... the harder you try, the worse you do. Think of the Two Bobs meeting in Office Space and act accordingly.

Question: What is the magic behind Turbine Time? Or Glass Time? I fly jets, turboprops, and pistons. I fly glass and I fly steam gauges. For me, the level of planning, work, apprehensiveness, skill required and stress involved in a given flight is inverse to the amount of glass instrumentation, autopilot functionality, thrust of the power plants, and systems automation in the airplane being flown.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, but:

Wx briefing and route planning? Thunderstorms? Icing? Alternate routing due to those? Important, but generally not a go/no go decision in a jet where you can usually blast through and/or stay above. In a piston, often gut wrenching apprehensiveness in preflight. Then you get the teeth knocked out of your mouth during the flight, but you don't notice 'til you're doing the paperwork because you're too busy trying to keep up.

Approach briefings in a jet with glass? Every time sure, but not to the point where I demand myself to have every number memorized before passing the IAF as is the case in a broke-ass Navajo with one Nav radio working and a questionable glide slope indicator.

Flight planning and charts? With George Glass? Make sure the fixes are entered correctly, verified in the FMS, and the plane turns at the bend in the magenta line. In an old Twin Commander? Turn, Time, Twist, Think, Talk, Track (When's the last time you hacked a time, or calculated a wind correction in your glass jet? Be honest.). Then double check the sketchy electrical and engine gauges to make sure they're bouncing around in TLAR range, and verify reception of the next VOR, and your position on the chart.

Descent planning in the jet? Look at the FMS. In a Queen Air? Do some math.

Engine failure just after rotation? In a jet? Add rudder and climb. Remember to get the gear up when you can. Get to altitude, clean up, and calmly run checklist. In a piston? Add rudder, gear up - right now, verify the throttle lever you're grabbing is the one opposite of the rudder you're pushing, pull it slightly to verify the dead engine, wipe sweat off of palm in order to gain purchase on the prop lever you're about to verify, and feather that engine, maintain exactly Vxse the whole time while occasionally glancing at the dimly lighted AI to ensure attitude, look for a landing area, hope to hell you can maintain altitude and maybe, if you're lucky, even climb some, if you get to a safe altitude or before you crash, secure the engine, keep flying the plane and verify the checklist items.

Even old jets often get little respect in terms of time in type. You think you're monitoring more diligently, paying more attention to systems gauges, and continuously burnishing your systems knowledge as assiduously when you're flying a G150 as when your flying a beat out old Lear? I'm not complacent or self-satisfied in either, but I'll be honest, I go back to the Lear manuals far more than the Gulfstream manuals, and I'm more aware of everything when flying the Lear... which is usually what I'm doing, actually flying it, because George isn't a youngster anymore.

For me, Glass and Jet time is the easiest time there is. I don't let my instrument students get their IFR tickets in a glass airplanes. Why? Assuming they study the manuals and know the system, it takes me about 2-3 flights to transition a student to a G1000 after they get their ticket in steam gauges. The other way around? They almost might as well start from scratch.

I value actual instrument time highly. I value multi-engine time highly. I value PIC time highly. But I just don't understand the fetish for Glass and Turbine time over other time. Sure, in jets you have to know "all the systems". But that's the case in any airplane. And the plane you're flying now is likely not the same type you're going to be flying when you go to XYZ Airline. So you're going to have to learn "all the systems" again for your new plane regardless. Given that, wouldn't actual aviation skills, knowledge, and experience be more valuable than the nebulous attribute "turbine PIC"? Would we rather have people who are good at math or people with lots of Calculator Time?

Discuss?
 
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Derg said:
Well there are some good online schools and some "Grand Cayman Meth Lab and Degree Foundry" online schools. The challenge is creating a solid method of differentiating between the two.
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Just out of curiosity... Would a school like Thomas Edison have any weight? Online school is the only option, and although cheaper than Embry Riddle it's still not cheap. It would be really crappy to put forth the effort and getting into debt for a degree just to get a response such as.. "Thomas Edison, what school is that?"

Main reason I ask is because I'm starting that program in January, I flat out cannot afford the outrageous prices for the riddle degree and even Utah Valley seems steep these days.
 
Derg said:
SouthernJets "self insures" with UHC as the coordinator. If we had Dr. Pepper onboard, everyone, including myself, would have Type II Diabetes because would command "BRING THEE DR. PEPPER. DO THIS NAO!" every leg.
Click to expand...
Growing up in Texas, I often felt like I was the only kid who didn't like Dr. Pepper.
 
Cptnchia said:
Back in the dark ages, when I interviewed, after it was all over, I was passing through the crew room on the way home. CP sticks his head out the door and says, “Congratulations!”
I answered, “For what?” No one, except my wife know I was interviewing.

He gave me a “get real” look and said, “They called me yesterday and asked about you.”

Aviation is a small, small world.
Click to expand...

Long story as to the "why" but...

After I interviewed at USAir my CP saw me walking to the gate to catch a flight home and said the same thing.

I got the TBNT letter a week later (on Thanksgiving day at 6pm).
 
Crop Duster said:
Opinion: Most formal recruiting situations find us time constrained, a wee tad frenzied, and a bit stilted - on both sides of the table. They remind me a bit of speed dating. My best experiences - from both sides of the table - in these situations is to be completely authentic while displaying a good dose of dispassion and disinterest (not un-interest). It's very much like a sales call or a golf game... the harder you try, the worse you do. Think of the Two Bobs meeting in Office Space and act accordingly.

Question: What is the magic behind Turbine Time? Or Glass Time? I fly jets, turboprops, and pistons. I fly glass and I fly steam gauges. For me, the level of planning, work, apprehensiveness, skill required and stress involved in a given flight is inverse to the amount of glass instrumentation, autopilot functionality, thrust of the power plants, and systems automation in the airplane being flown.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, but:

Wx briefing and route planning? Thunderstorms? Icing? Alternate routing due to those? Important, but generally not a go/no go decision in a jet where you can usually blast through and/or stay above. In a piston, often gut wrenching apprehensiveness in preflight. Then you get the teeth knocked out of your mouth during the flight, but you don't notice 'til you're doing the paperwork because you're too busy trying to keep up.

Approach briefings in a jet with glass? Every time sure, but not to the point where I demand myself to have every number memorized before passing the IAF as is the case in a broke-ass Navajo with one Nav radio working and a questionable glide slope indicator.

Flight planning and charts? With George Glass? Make sure the fixes are entered correctly, verified in the FMS, and the plane turns at the bend in the magenta line. In an old Twin Commander? Turn, Time, Twist, Think, Talk, Track (When's the last time you hacked a time, or calculated a wind correction in your glass jet? Be honest.). Then double check the sketchy electrical and engine gauges to make sure they're bouncing around in TLAR range, and verify reception of the next VOR, and your position on the chart.

Descent planning in the jet? Look at the FMS. In a Queen Air? Do some math.

Engine failure just after rotation? In a jet? Add rudder and climb. Remember to get the gear up when you can. Get to altitude, clean up, and calmly run checklist. In a piston? Add rudder, gear up - right now, verify the throttle lever you're grabbing is the one opposite of the rudder you're pushing, pull it slightly to verify the dead engine, wipe sweat off of palm in order to gain purchase on the prop lever you're about to verify, and feather that engine, maintain exactly Vxse the whole time while occasionally glancing at the dimly lighted AI to ensure attitude, look for a landing area, hope to hell you can maintain altitude and maybe, if you're lucky, even climb some, if you get to a safe altitude or before you crash, secure the engine, keep flying the plane and verify the checklist items.

Even old jets often get little respect in terms of time in type. You think you're monitoring more diligently, paying more attention to systems gauges, and continuously burnishing your systems knowledge as assiduously when you're flying a G150 as when your flying a beat out old Lear? I'm not complacent or self-satisfied in either, but I'll be honest, I go back to the Lear manuals far more than the Gulfstream manuals, and I'm more aware of everything when flying the Lear... which is usually what I'm doing, actually flying it, because George isn't a youngster anymore.

For me, Glass and Jet time is the easiest time there is. I don't let my instrument students get their IFR tickets in a glass airplanes. Why? Assuming they study the manuals and know the system, it takes me about 2-3 flights to transition a student to a G1000 after they get their ticket in steam gauges. The other way around? They almost might as well start from scratch.

I value actual instrument time highly. I value multi-engine time highly. I value PIC time highly. But I just don't understand the fetish for Glass and Turbine time over other time. Sure, in jets you have to know "all the systems". But that's the case in any airplane. And the plane you're flying now is likely not the same type you're going to be flying when you go to XYZ Airline. So you're going to have to learn "all the systems" again for your new plane regardless. Given that, wouldn't actual aviation skills, knowledge, and experience be more valuable than the nebulous attribute "turbine PIC"? Would we rather have people who are good at math or people with lots of Calculator Time?

Discuss?
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Great write up
 
Crop Duster said:
Discuss?
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I’d hypothesize that if you’re at the job fair in the first place then you meet the time requirements, ergo your personality and “story” will carry you to the interview where your actual experience will get more thoroughly disected and examined.

You could be the most badass, ‘jo drivin’ piston jockey ootsk cowboy on the planet but that really doesn’t mean crap in front of an interview panel that’s hiring a person first and pilot second. The only thing in life that’s virtually unteachable is how to not be an arsehole.

And thirdly, I think Doug’s point is that in a relatively homogenous group of applicants you don’t want your time grid taking up valuable real estate on what should be a one page resume.
 
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