In-house Delta Job Fair, October 20/21 2017

Jordan93 said:
Lol. Just saw a guy write about how the process is unfair, Delta sucks, and is wondering why he can't get an interview. What is wrong with people? It's really sad and pathetic that people need to be told this.

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That reads like "I was at a a regional for a short period of time and went to work for a small 135 operator"
 
Derg said:
That reads like "I was at a a regional for a short period of time and went to work for a small 135 operator"
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Let me preface this by saying that losing your crap in public will never produce the results that you want, and that this guy's behavior should serve as a warning to anyone else who wants to work at ANY airline.

But that being said, there's something that can be taught here if airlines want to listen; pilots are being told what to do in order to obtain a position at airline X, and then they're finding out that they still won't be hired after accomplishing the stated goal.

I tend to think that pilots approach hiring the way they approach flying; with a checklist. When someone tells them to complete a checklist item in order to obtain employment at airline X, they expect to be given consideration for a position at airline X after completing said task.

Here's an example: I was told that I should "just become a line check airman" in order to garner favor at airline X when I talked with a recruiter at a career fair.

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But somehow, I was selected to become a line check airman, and successfully passed training. So I come back to the next job fair that airline X is attending, and I'm told, "Oh, well, maybe you should just become a chief pilot."

What? Are you kidding? This doesn't even make sense. I did what I was told to do, and now Lucy moved the ball, so to speak. But whatever, I'll keep plugging.

[yt]

So I come back to work the next week and I'm giving a line check to a captain. We get to talking and he tells me that he's waiting on a class date at airline X. Is he a line check airman? Nope. Ever been a chief pilot? Nope. Volunteer work? Nope. Know anyone? Nope.

After this happens enough times, it starts to feel like getting a job at a legacy airline is like working out in your 40's.

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Is it ok to lose your crap in public when things don't work out the way you want them to? No, not at all, and that's going to weed out a few guys. But at the same time, when you're told to do X in order to have Y outcome, and you do X, and someone tells you that you're not quite good enough, you're going to produce a group of malcontents that feel they were cheated.

And that's every airline's prerogative. Just hope all these airlines understand that they're creating a generation of malcontents who have already had their careers ruined by the lost decade.
 
Thank you @Cptnchia for getting what I was driving at.



Was my horse analogy that hard to follow? It basically stated the story exactly as it happened, and attempted to explain a big reason as to why the ensuing result ended up with some people flipping out on the FB page.

"Horse. Water. Thirsty horse."

To use that horse analogy, in this case it was 5,000 thirsty horses and the water you led them
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5,000 pilot applicants sat ready at exactly the opening time of the slot lottery system.

to was only enough for 600 horses, and they drank it all in less than 2 minutes. You're gonna have 4,400 horses who had no water.
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Only enough slots for 600 pilots, and they all filled in less than 2 minutes. 5,400 pilots have nothing. But so far, that's just fine. Because that was the deal they provided. 600 slots this day.

Now here comes the problem:


And seemingly, quite a few horses got their tongue into what they thought was water, but it was actually a mirage. (Signed in on time, as soon as it was open picked open slot, then got error message).
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There are many definitions of a mirage, but the one I was going for was the definition of the appearance of water over a sand-like surface or pavement type surface when you look at it from a distance (radiance of heat thing), gives a full appearance of water. But it's not water, and you won't get water.

Now this is a legitimate problem. Many sat there, ready, and clicked a slot that was available. So filled everything out, hit submit, and it should have been a done deal. To them, that looked just like water. When they get the error message, they realize that wasn't water, it was just a mirage - the appearance of water, and they thought they had obtained a slot whereas in reality they didn't.

Most are smart enough to keep it to themselves,
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Many people in this boat. They sucked it up and kept to themselves. Many also politely wrote on Delta's FB about this event happening when they selected a slot, it was available, but then they got the error message. It sent them out, they re-entered, picked another slot that showed available, and then it was sold out, error message.

but a few are gonna horse around.
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My point finishing up is "a few are going to horse around." Meaning, a guy like David *most likely* did try to get a slot this day, in all likeliness sat there at exactly :30 past the hour ready to click and get a slot, probably did get an open slot, fills the info out, and by the time the confirmation page is suppose to come up, he ends up with an error message and has to start over. He does, picks another time slot that's available, and same error message again because it filled up. He enters a 3rd time, and all slots are gone. So now at this some point, some horses have had it, and they are gonna horse around, as in show their displeasure directly to the place they were to gain entrance. I've already prefaced the entire story by saying that this is wrong, that an applicant shouldn't shoot themselves in a post and basically trash talk against their potential employer on facebook/social media. I'm simply just trying to say "hey, this is probably why this applicant did this...."

It's just like what @jtrain609 said above. People are doing what they are told to do in order to get positive results and/or an interview shot. But in MANY cases people end up finding the field goal posts keep moving.
 
You have 15 recruiters available for two days and you're running multiple events per year. Additionally, one visit per 12 month period is hunky dory and keeps you "fresh" in the system. Keep in mind that the average career fair you may see 800 applicants over three days so you're basically working double time in a shorter period of time.

Additionally, attending a career fair is not a required part of the pilot selection process whatsoever and there isn't a "point system" for attending. The idea is to offer 1200 people the opportunity to get in front of a recruiter, spend some time with the various department heads, get a feel for the company and get some real world, first-hand interview and application prep assistance straight from the horses mouth.

Oh, and lunch. Which is also free for the attendee.

But you literally can't handle 10,000 people in two days, with 10,000 individual schedule requests. You can handle 1200 this time, another 1200 the next time, and so on.

Or you can just say "Meh, to hell with it" and leave the applicant pool to the mercy of the brain in the box and the career consultants.

How would you handle this differently? Please elucidate and show your math.
 
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Derg said:
You have 15 recruiters available for two days and you're running multiple events per year. Additionally, one visit per 12 month period is hunky dory and keeps you "fresh" in the system. Keep in mind that the average career fair you may see 800 applicants over three days so you're basically working double time in a shorter period of time.

How would you handle this differently? Please elucidate and show your math.
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Derg said:
You have 15 recruiters available for two days and you're running multiple events per year. Additionally, one visit per 12 month period is hunky dory and keeps you "fresh" in the system. Keep in mind that the average career fair you may see 800 applicants over three days so you're basically working double time in a shorter period of time.

How would you handle this differently? Please elucidate and show your math.
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To clarify, I only tried to explain why some pilots are horsing around on Delta's FB page now.

But to make this particular situation better and avoid a repeat, I'd suggest what some others have also suggested: make this 600 slot system a first-come-first serve basis with no time slots to sign up for in the initial raffle. Just get the name, basic info, and email and the first 600 are in. Now once those 600 are in, then open a separate time slot sign ups for their career fair day, and each applicant that's already in will get one time slot guaranteed. This will avoid the problems previously. Cause I tell ya, if the same system runs again for day 2, you will have the same exact problem manifest and many will get error messages for their time slots.

You have legitimate gripes on the FB page. When people write, "I was showing as #85 in line, and yet the time slot I signed up for was showing available, I put my info, and then poof! error message. I re-entered and picked another slot that was available, and poof, then it was gone once I submit my info. Now I got nothing! And I showed as #85 in line...."

A guy claiming to be #8 in line had the exact same story as above.

And I guarantee you more horsing around after day 2 signups on the FB page if the same thing repeats. That's because those who felt they got the mirage and not the water, are just waiting for the day 2 sign ups because that's their light at the end of the tunnel. But if it happens again and this is the only career fair left in ATL for this year, some people will blow up on the FB page.
 
Horsing around = self selection. It's a treasure trove of data and anything you publicly offer in social media gets considered in the process. If I said, "United Sucks" I can guarantee you it will have my name affixed to it in their database and FDX is going to say "Whoah, that was ballsy, no thanks"

Happens daily as the recruitment/selection circles are interconnected.

Largely, we all tell ourselves that we're rare and delicate but when 5000 people show up within two minutes, 9000 over the span of ten minutes, for 600 spots, I think we all got a wakeup call.
 
Absolutely. And horsing around is career suicide in this case. I only attempted to explain why some are horsing around in this case, and I prefaced my entire posts with saying that it is wrong, and candidates shouldn't do it no matter how wrong they feel or how they feel they are getting screwed, etc.
 
its not. needs to be encouraged if pilots are ever going to own their work and get over the self loathing defined for them by management.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Absolutely. And horsing around is career suicide in this case. I only attempted to explain why some are horsing around in this case, and I prefaced my entire posts with saying that it is wrong, and candidates shouldn't do it no matter how wrong they feel or how they feel they are getting screwed, etc.
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It doesn't matter why someone is angry. What matters is that they're angry, publicly, in a global pool of pilots most of which, well, aren't.
 
A few years ago, I signed up for, and purchased a career fair. It was sold out, and I was #127 (out of 140ish).

So I show up, and expect to wait my turn, as the patient man I am.

I mingle with my current shop's (at the time) HR folks, because I know them well.
One of them asks, who are you here to see? I say "X" and she says, come with me.

Walks me over, and interrupts the VP of flight ops talking to attendee #1 and says, "talk to 'Nark' next, you should hire him."

I was called the next day, and offered an interview. Hired 10 days later.

I feel I've done this before, echoing Dougs advice.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this wasn't the first time Ms. HR at regional, has talked to VP dude. It's like there is a backroom to these types of events that are catered and full bars and socializing happening.
 
what he is not going to be able to stop is NAI and other foreign carriers from eating that seniority list alive with pilots that got treated like garbage by ALPA.

go ahead and call them scabs. make their day.
 
SKYROCK said:
what he is not going to be able to stop is NAI and other foreign carriers from eating that seniority list alive with pilots that got treated like garbage by ALPA.

go ahead and call them scabs. make their day.
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Wow, that was a valuable submission.
 
Nark said:
I have a sneaking suspicion that this wasn't the first time Ms. HR at regional, has talked to VP dude. It's like there is a backroom to these types of events that are catered and full bars and socializing happening.
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This is absolutely true.

Especially at the big career fairs.

Hell, a good portion of AA's recruitment team has my name in their logbook from when I was a CFI! Ha!
 
I expected better from you. Would you care to synthesize a reasonable argument? History has shown this to be true. The association has bred resentment which cannot be undone. These unions have done nothing but abuse the membership. I have single handedly seen this take place on a smaller scale with the machinists and talking to EAL & TWA pilots that hate ALPA. That's HATE. Who has the entitlement here? I'd say its the association acting like an 800 # gorilla playing whack a mole and surrounded by Bengal tigers. The association does not own them, the company does not own them and neither does the FAA.
 
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