Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I love this.
Eff you SWA
- Thread starter NovemberEcho
- Start date
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Just so we're clear, I'm not against new functionality and an updated system. I just don't want it done half assed.
People bitch all the time about the FAA's "regulate and promote." And yet don't seem to have a problem with "and make a crapload of money for our investors... Or else." into the equation.
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gne in prog
Well-Known Member
Well if it works for sleds in bethel, I can't see why a bunch of jets coming out of kjfk, Klga, kewr, kteb. and khpn can't do the same thing.
But do the whistles go woo woo?
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
They can, I helped test it at NASA Ames.
Of course when someone goes around it all falls apart. No amount of new tech changes that
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ppragman
No pasa nada.
Well - I mean, don't get me wrong, I love ATC - they're freaking rockstars I could not do what they do, nor would I want to...but if there was an outage, and I could see everyone on the map, and the "standard when radar was unavailable" under IFR was to keep a 5nm bubble between me and the closest traffic, and 1000' of altitude separation, I don't really think that'd be that hard, in fact there are people doing a "version" of it all the time up north. I bet you could have technology that would keep an eye on all the other airplanes with ADS-B and infer where they were going from their direct headings and would tell you "maintain this groundspeed if possible."
I know for a fact from holding with other airplanes in "1sm visibility and clear of clouds" while waiting for my turn under special VFR that self-separation is possible. It's not ideal, and you've got to have good tools for SA, but it's totally possible, especially with badass software.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Yup. Seriously, I don't think it'd be that tough to build a system that was largely independent of "radar."
Better than that, since ADS-B isn't encrypted, I bet you could build a distributed internet based ATC backup from all the people out there that've put up their own ADS-B antennas.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Also just to be clear - I don't think ATC should be privatized at all - I think we should just have the most badass ATC system that government money can buy.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
A thousand times this.
But also the most reliable.
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RDoug
Well-Known Member
The agency have been moving toward this since the days of Marion Blakey, in which she said the FAA are going from first come, first served to best equipped, best served.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
From my mapping days it was more like airlines first, then corporate, then everyone else as workload allows.
But I suppose they are better equipped than most. Not really complaining about that, it's kinda how it should be.
Though I would appreciate an "unable" instead of just being ignored for vfr services until an annoyed controller chews you out for wasting his time and you should just know that he heard you and didn't care.
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RDoug
Well-Known Member
There is no excuse for poor service. "Unable is acceptable if traffic volume or frequency congestion doesn't permit the service, but being chewed out just for making the request is unacceptable.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Well, I didn't get chewed out until the 4th request, but the reason I made 4 is because I honestly thought I was having radio issues because I got zero response.
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NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
Not saying this the case in this particular circumstance, but I have had it where I'm super busy, on the verge of going down the tubes if I'm not already, VFR calls up but I don't even have the time to acknowledge him, and then he keeps trying to call up and blocking transmissions and whatnot. Very frustrating. Not justifying a chewing out over that, but that's where it stems from.
Springer
Well-Known Member
Mark Baker, AOPA President, was at our BBQ this afternoon talking to 20 of us General Aviation pilots. If you are still into GA expect user fees with privatization as seen throughout Europe and somewhat in Canada. Pay a fee every time you land at an airport. They are fighting this with all their might but it is beginning to look like a losing battle. The best way is to contact the Congressman in your voting district and say NO to HR2997. Most Congressmen have no clue what it is about but their offices keep a tally of the YEAS and NAYS from their constituents and vote accordingly.
Turning it over to the airlines is akin to turning our highways over to the trucking industry and letting them decide who uses them and at what cost.
ADS-B is required by Jan 1, 2020. I have ADS-B displayed on my GPS and is extremely accurate. Tap an a/c symbol on the GPS and it will display their N number, speed, alt, climbing/descending and direction of flight.
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...ent&utm_content=tts&utm_campaign=170706epilot
Turning it over to the airlines is akin to turning our highways over to the trucking industry and letting them decide who uses them and at what cost.
ADS-B is required by Jan 1, 2020. I have ADS-B displayed on my GPS and is extremely accurate. Tap an a/c symbol on the GPS and it will display their N number, speed, alt, climbing/descending and direction of flight.
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...ent&utm_content=tts&utm_campaign=170706epilot
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
That's not what I was suggesting. I was saying that in other areas where radar is sparse but ADSB coverage goes to the ground, holding for 20 minutes while you watch the guy ahead of you shoot a full procedure on your mfd is asinine.
gne in prog
Well-Known Member
I'd agree with that. I was thinking more in terms of the novemberecho's original post about the airlines complaints of delays, which are largely their own fault, and makes their complaints laughable.
Modernizing atc is a good thing, but not some miracle cure.
RDoug
Well-Known Member
Best analogy on this scheme I've yet to see. I'll be stealing this one!
RDoug
Well-Known Member
That's neither a system nor an equipment limitation; it's a regulatory one. And it won't change with ADS-B, NexGen, or anything else short of installing a control tower. At an uncontrolled airport ATC is required to protect the airspace until cancellation of IFR is received, confirmation of arrival is made (such as calling the FBO to check), or 30 minutes after fuel exhaustion. Radar coverage has absolutely nothing to do with it.
