I've read a lot of your posts lately and I'm convinced that you really do hate pilots. I don't blame you, some of us are pretty difficult to work with. But most of your interaction with us is short lived and you never even get to see us (lucky you!). Go easy on the divisive rhetoric. We're all part of the same team and most of us would bend over backwards to help you out. Return the favor when you get home and boot up JC.
Eff you SWA
- Thread starter NovemberEcho
- Start date
I've read a lot of your posts lately and I'm convinced that you really do hate pilots. I don't blame you, some of us are pretty difficult to work with. But most of your interaction with us is short lived and you never even get to see us (lucky you!). Go easy on the divisive rhetoric. We're all part of the same team and most of us would bend over backwards to help you out. Return the favor when you get home and boot up JC.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
See, this is the attitude that SWA is complaining about. We have all this tech now and procedures that in many cases are written for non-radar control of aircraft flying nothing more precise than a 4-course range and instead of "hey let's find a way to work around this and be more efficient while maintaining safety" it's "well we have to do it this way because".
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
I don't know if i would call it an attitude. Personally I wouldn't see anything wrong with it. I was just saying why it is the way it is.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
I have no issues with pilots (at least not most of them). Your bosses though, when advocating for something that greatly impacts me personally, and in such a manner as this, is a different story altogether. I'm genuinely curious though how you came to the conclusion I don't like pilots. I certainly never meant to give that impression.
I'm not going to comb through your posts, just giving my opinion on what I've read.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
Meh. When y'all bitch about work it's about pax and management. When I bitch about work it's about pilots. I save the management stuff for ATC forums. If I have any negative feelings towards pilots as a group it's probably just a tinge of envy.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
I'm just gonna put this out there - but I'd imagine that a lot of supposed "ATC" delays could be solved by algorithmically deciding departure times for each airplane. By that I mean - no airline gets to say "we run a 4pm to BOS" rather the computer looks at the capacity of the system and says "alright SWA, you have a 3:55 to 4:03pm window to depart for Boston - if you don't make that time you no fly.
I know there's a little of this at the certificate level with economic authority and at the tactical "ATC" level with gate holds and time slots and other stuff - but why don't we just give ATC the keys to the castle when it comes to when flights are dispatched?
I know there's a little of this at the certificate level with economic authority and at the tactical "ATC" level with gate holds and time slots and other stuff - but why don't we just give ATC the keys to the castle when it comes to when flights are dispatched?
Because that's not capitalism.
gne in prog
Well-Known Member
How do you see ATC privatization changing that? Just because a handful of people make a killing off of it doesn't mean they won't have to answer to the faa.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
I've always wondered the same thing as that. Like imo a "push" shouldn't exist. Every day at certain times we get absolutely swamped, but the hour before and after we are dead. With not that much effort those flights in the push could be spread out and greatly reduce congestion of all forms. As it is now we have something called TMU, traffic management unit, which is supposed to set flow metering and rates etc but theyre pretty much limited to how many planes can enter approaches airspace per hour and setting time based metering and although better than nothing it leaves a lot to be desired.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
So? I mean at a certain point the airlines are damn near a utility - hell the president can order pilots to go to work if the president doesn't want them to strike (I get that that's a gross oversimplification but the point stands)... we have the technology to solve this gigantic graph theory problem - this is basically a network analysis problem where if packets overlap people die and where the ping is several hours between nodes.
I'd get the point of "but capitalism" if we were actually in a perfect competition but at this stage air travel is definitely an oligopoly. We have the technology, we can do better than this nonsense.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
How has privatization been working so far with ATC, with regards to Non-Federat control towers that are private contract run?
I understand that those are a very very small portion of the overall ATC picture, and of course aren't comparable to busy ATC towers at airports, much less TRACONs or ARTCCs. But with that said, have those particular facilities served the purpose they were created for, or are they more or less useless?
I understand that those are a very very small portion of the overall ATC picture, and of course aren't comparable to busy ATC towers at airports, much less TRACONs or ARTCCs. But with that said, have those particular facilities served the purpose they were created for, or are they more or less useless?
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
... outages happen. Like, you know, a guy tries to burn down the TRACON.
What do you tell all those IFR flights "sorry guys, try not to hit each other?"
You do. Not. Want. new ATC tech every year. If there is going to be a change it needs be built on last generation hardware, stress tested for years, backward compatible, and it damn well better have a foundation in non-radar.
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Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Oh come on. We already treat radar that way, you use it when it works and then revert back to non-radar when it doesn't. No dang reason ADSB should be any different. ATC has been using it in this part of the country for the better part of 10 years. I know I'm talking about just a tiny portion of the big picture, but I figure this probably isn't the only instance of the ATC system being bass ackwards.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
The FCT's work for their purpose. They're slow airfields obviously. But they are perpetually minimum staffed and the pay and benefits are much much less than FAA. Their biggest advantage is they don't have the mandatory age 56 retirement, so you'll find a lot of retired faa or military controllers working them or young guys trying to get into the faa. As for rules etc they are governed by the same rules as we in the faa and military were.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
When is it required for all aircraft to be ADSB equipped? My guess is you won't see any ADS-B related rule changes until everyone is supposed to have it.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Er, maybe I misunderstood then. I thought you were complaining about procedures being based around non-radar?
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ppragman
No pasa nada.
Is now the time when I should bring up all the sleds in bethel self separating in the "VFR" holds using ADS-B? Is now that time??
Because seriously, the tech exists to make that work even if someone tries to burn down tracon.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
The best way to accelerate compliance is to deny/delay services to those who don't have the equipment to take advantage of it.