Eff you SWA

n57flyguy said:
Sorry - you're going to have to answer for yourself instead of differing to other threads.

I really want to hear your expertise on the matter now that I've been labeled "ignorant" for asking a question.
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Then go back through the old threads and see what I wrote.
 
learhawkerbe400 said:
Perfect example. Trying to leave PHL to go to MSP last week and there's a few small cells out over PTW. That departure corridor gets closed so we go wait. Ask clearance if we can go over MXE or anywhere else. No can't do that. So we wait and they clear us out over MXE 45 or so minutes later. We take off and once on with center get cleared back on our original route over PTW immediately.

I obviously don't see the big picture but stuff like that is so frustrating.

Also, I recently talked about having to declare an emergency to avoid a giant cell bc the approach controller wouldn't let turn us turn. I'm not a controller but that stuff enrages me.

Like someone else said the controllers have a job because of the airlines. Sometimes that fact is forgotten. Its the same with pilots and pax. Some of them can be a pain but without them we wouldn't have a job without them.

Don't get me wrong I appreciate all the work controllers do and I do not want to see you guys lose any money/ benefits. I'm just calling a spade and spade.
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As you said, you don't see the big picture. Those cells were probably causing other departure gates to get jammed and bottlenecked. Keep in mind you have departures from PHL but also EWR, JFK, LGA, TEB, HPN, MMU, all squeezing into the same gates while at the same time arrivals for all those airports too. You might say well why can't we just go that way instead? Well because arrival streams to a dozen other airports are over there. In the NE corridor between D.C. and BOS there's pretty much an arrival or departure route everywhere. No amount of modernization will change that. It might straighten out a couple routes, but it's not going to allow departures and arrivals to play chicken with each other.
 
NovemberEcho said:
As you said, you don't see the big picture. Those cells were probably causing other departure gates to get jammed and bottlenecked. Keep in mind you have departures from PHL but also EWR, JFK, LGA, TEB, HPN, MMU, all squeezing into the same gates while at the same time arrivals for all those airports too. You might say well why can't we just go that way instead? Well because arrival streams to a dozen other airports are over there. In the NE corridor between D.C. and BOS there's pretty much an arrival or departure route everywhere. No amount of modernization will change that. It might straighten out a couple routes, but it's not going to allow departures and arrivals to play chicken with each other.
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I understand there are other airports and airplanes to deal with. My beef with it is getting held on the ground for a reroute and then once in with center being immediately put back on the original route.
 
learhawkerbe400 said:
I understand there are other airports and airplanes to deal with. My beef with it is getting held on the ground for a reroute and then once in with center being immediately put back on the original route.
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Perhaps the cells moved? I mean, I agree that it's frustrating, but I don't see how the fact that weather is dynamic is going to be changed by technology.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Not sure I'm tracking how this is analogous to a pilot strike.
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The argument was "you won't shortcut SWA because the action of the a small percentage of employees in management and it effects everyone else so it is wrong." Well a pilot strike is done because of the actions of a small percentage of employees in management and it effects everyone. So based on that argument, a pilot strike is even more grievous because all I said was no more short cuts, not cancellations and delays.

(I don't actually believe a pilot strike for better pay/benefits/work conditions etc to be wrong, just showing how the argument goes both ways)
 
Having been in the system for the last decade, I'd reason to bet that 90% of delays are not due to ATC, and I feel I'm being conservative. They are a mix of maintenance, available gate space, lack of crews at the regionals, etc., etc. Also, when weather rolls in at the major hubs, no amount of privatization is going to prevent holding while you wait for the weather to move on.

Modernization would happen much quicker if the FAA didn't have their budget held hostage every time a budget comes up for vote.
 
learhawkerbe400 said:
I understand there are other airports and airplanes to deal with. My beef with it is getting held on the ground for a reroute and then once in with center being immediately put back on the original route.
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Would you prefer to be holding in the air waiting for a reroute? There's a lot more that goes into a reroute than just issuing a new clearance. Lots of pieces on the board that all effect each other.
 
NovemberEcho said:
Would you prefer to be holding in the air waiting for a reroute? There's a lot more that goes into a reroute than just issuing a new clearance. Lots of pieces on the board that all effect each other.
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Obviously not. It just seems from the outside like the left hand doesn't see what the right is doing.
 
learhawkerbe400 said:
They were very slowly moving to the east. Hadn't moved much in the hour we were messing around on the ground and MXE was clear the whole time.
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You know when we close a gate due to weather? It's not because we say "oh look, precipitation, close the gate." It's because departures before you saw the weather and said nope!

I think you should take a tour of a major Tracon and center and see how it all interacts. You sound like those passengers on a weather delay who are "but it's not raining at all here!"
 
learhawkerbe400 said:
I understand there are other airports and airplanes to deal with. My beef with it is getting held on the ground for a reroute and then once in with center being immediately put back on the original route.
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There's good reason for that. You can only land so many airplanes is so much time. We see it a lot coming into the hubs.

"Advise ready to copy holding instructions"

Or being on final, having the airplane in front of you go around because the front just passed, and now everybody within 500 miles now has to slow down because the airport just turned around, and we can't land with a 30kt tail wind, like this....
 

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NovemberEcho said:
You know when we close a gate due to weather? It's not because we say "oh look, precipitation, close the gate." It's because departures before you saw the weather and said nope!

I think you should take a tour of a major Tracon and center and see how it all interacts. You sound like those passengers on a weather delay who are "but it's not raining at all here!"
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Don't take it personal man. I know you guys do the best with what you have.
 
NovemberEcho said:
As you said, you don't see the big picture. Those cells were probably causing other departure gates to get jammed and bottlenecked. Keep in mind you have departures from PHL but also EWR, JFK, LGA, TEB, HPN, MMU, all squeezing into the same gates while at the same time arrivals for all those airports too. You might say well why can't we just go that way instead? Well because arrival streams to a dozen other airports are over there. In the NE corridor between D.C. and BOS there's pretty much an arrival or departure route everywhere. No amount of modernization will change that. It might straighten out a couple routes, but it's not going to allow departures and arrivals to play chicken with each other.
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LGA craps on N90 craps on New York Center craps on Cleveland Center, etc.
 
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