Need Help Making a Big Decision

[drunkenbeagle]

I guess the main reason that I thought ATP would be a good decision is because I get this feeling that it is important to get into the profession as soon as possible. Mainly so I have enough time to climb the ladder. You all made a very good point to take my corporate job and fly on the side. I had put some thought into it but thought it would take quite some time to get to 1,500 that way.

Well, I don't think anyone was suggesting flying 1,500 hours while at your new corporate job. But getting 250 hours and a CFI rating while at your current job is totally feasible. Once you have that, you can go be a CFI just about anywhere for 18 months or so and get the other 1,200 hours. Which will pay about the same as your first year at a regional. It will also pay substantially more than teaching at ATP.

So I guess my biggest takeaway so far is by working full time and flying on the side, I would have enough time to have a successful career as an airline pilot?

Plenty of time. Even if it ends up taking an extra year or two, who cares? You'll be doing the CFI/regional flying for many years no matter what. Might as well take your time, and have the cash to enjoy it.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

So here comes the main point of this tread. I have begun looking (Again) at flight schools around the country where it could be feasible to get my training and I would greatly appreciate your advice on which routes I could go down. I am from St. Louis and will be moving back in three months after graduation.

Looking around the old google for about 5 minutes, there are a number of local flight schools around St Louis. Plenty of flying clubs too. You could get a PPL in a 152 for about $5,000. I saw a club Citabria there for $59 wet (includes fuel). Over 2 years, totally possible to get a commercial and CFI for less than $20k. Possibly quite a bit less.

At the end of the day, absolutely no one cares what type airplane you do training in. At the PPL level, the simplest is usually the best, as it is both cheaper and faster to learn. If you can get a good bit of tailwheel time as well, that opens up even more options to you.

 

[AA34]

I would advise you to take it slow and stick with the business job for a while. Fly on the side and take your time. At least get your PPL and fly a little before going into flying full time. If your business job is 60 hours a week and you hate it in a year, then reassess, but it would be nice to save up some money and a gain a little experience in what you majored in. I'd hate to see you spend 100K on ATP and then end up hating the airline lifestyle and making little money at the regionals.

@future pilot Good advice here. I've done the same but have taken longer than planned. I'm 29 and working on CMEL. While I wish sometimes that I would have gotten to this point sooner, I've also saved a lot of money and built a good resume if anything ever happens to my flying career. I've also REALLY enjoyed my twenties.

 

[WS]

Admittedly I haven't done my due diligence here, but am I to understand that you are essentially starting from scratch with 0 flight time? If yes, I would recommend that you stay in your current gig at least for now and work at getting your private pilot license on the weekends to "try before you buy". You should be able to knock that out in a few months. The type of flying that you'll be able to do with that and maybe perhaps an added instrument rating is the FUN flying that you'll be able to afford to do on the weekends if you stay at your current gig. If you can stick it out and live with a well paying 9-5 job, maybe you can afford to buy your own airplane and use it on the weekends and afford to take your family on vacations with it and actually enjoy flying.

Some of the aviation jobs, especially at the bottom, have their fun moments, but you will have days where you wonder WTF you did to your life!

If you do decide to pursue a career in aviation, I STRONGLY recommend that you find a way to do it WITHOUT GOING INTO DEBT!!! Spend the extra time it will take to keep your job and fly on the weekends. It can be done, ask me how I know...

 

[poser765]

Some of the aviation jobs, especially at the bottom, have their fun moments, but you will have days where you wonder WTF you did to your life!

While this is most certainly true, I have to say I love my job and honestly enjoy doing it. Yeah it's work, and yeah you will have days that make you hate life, but if it's all you see yourself doing then that changes things. I've had those days. 14 hour days extended to 16 with min rest. Whether, holds, scheduling screwing around with you, delays out the butt. The difference between this and an office job is at the end of the day I can decompress and it all just rolls off my back and I'm ready to go back to work the next morning. At the office job I had I hated life. All of it. All the time.

While the flying you do at an airline isn't as fun as blasting off on a pretty saturday morning for a 100$ hamburger, I still get a lot more enjoyment and fill much more fulfilled then I ever did doing anything else outside of aviation.

 

[Jordan93]

Stay out of debt, get your ratings as cheaply as possible, network, and work hard.

 

[derg]

Go fly.

If you want to be a skydiver, you've got to jump out of the airplane.

That business degree is something you have for life.

 

[mshunter]

Take the guaranteed job. Get your PPL, then decide. Life is a marathon, not a sprint at your age, in your position. You have plenty of time.

 

[future pilot]

Thank you all for the advice you have given me! I think i have decided to stick with the corporate job, and get my Private license on the side to make sure i want to make a profession out of aviation. After obtaining my Private i will decide whether or not i want to work while getting the rest of my certifications or just go for it and take an accelerated program. I also applied for the jetBlue Ab initio program just for S and G's.

 

[future pilot]

Update:

So after about a year of the corporate gig I've finally decided its time to begin my flight training. After going back and forth on the idea of ATP I've decided to take the advice of a lot of you on here and get my private license while i still have a steady income to supplement it. After that the (tentative) plan is for the girlfriend and i to pack everything up and move to Tampa where i will get the rest of my ratings at ATP.

One question i have for anyone familiar with the STL area, i'm looking into High Altitude Flying Company (http://www.flyhafc.com/) to get my private in the evenings after work and on the weekends. Their website advertises roughly $7,300 for a private course. Being as i'm really not all that familiar with what is a good price can you all take a look and see if it is in line? Also, has anyone heard of this school or know if it is a good one?

 

[coks]

$7,300 is a fair deal, but remember that covers the bare minimum of 40 hours, 20 training required by the FAA. I believe (don't quote me on it) the national average for private is 50-60 hours, so your cost will more likely than not be higher, thus the note at the bottom saying it will run 10-15% higher. So just don't be expecting a dead even $7,300.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

Never heard of them and I grew up in the STL area.

Keep in mind $7,300 is going to be a best case scenario. I’d plan on it being closer to $9k, if I were you.

 

[tcco94]

I'll play devil's advocate and say after you get your PPL, don't take a substantial amount of time with the rest. You're young but the industry is extremely volatile. We know the retirements are there but we can't predict the economy.

Timing is everything and so is seniority. You could spend 10 years doing it at a comfortable pace and who's to guess what it'll be like then? Some take 2-3 years just for private to have no debt. Personally, I'd rather have my debt and be here much faster or at all. Just me.

If you seriously can save up the $ in a reasonable amount of time that makes sense but the industry right now is hurting and while everyone wants to guess what's going to happen next, we really don't know.

I'm sure someone will disagree but that's just my opinion because you said you're interested in 121. You've already got the degree, young age, good attitude. You'd be golden. Plus, you never know when life will hit you and what delays that might bring. Just a thought.

 

[future pilot]

$7,300 is a fair deal, but remember that covers the bare minimum of 40 hours, 20 training required by the FAA. I believe (don't quote me on it) the national average for private is 50-60 hours, so your cost will more likely than not be higher, thus the note at the bottom saying it will run 10-15% higher. So just don't be expecting a dead even $7,300.

Thats what i was thinking as well, obviously I'm trying to get it with as little flight hours as possible but i realize that will most likely not happen.

Never heard of them and I grew up in the STL area.

Keep in mind $7,300 is going to be a best case scenario. I’d plan on it being closer to $9k, if I were you.

Do you happen to know of any other good schools in the area? i was looking into Gateway Flight Training and Air Associates as well but gateway quoted me about two thousand more than High Altitude. It also looks like Air Associates recently closed their doors.

I'll play devil's advocate and say after you get your PPL, don't take a substantial amount of time with the rest. You're young but the industry is extremely volatile. We know the retirements are there but we can't predict the economy.

Timing is everything and so is seniority. You could spend 10 years doing it at a comfortable pace and who's to guess what it'll be like then? Some take 2-3 years just for private to have no debt. Personally, I'd rather have my debt and be here much faster or at all. Just me.

If you seriously can save up the $ in a reasonable amount of time that makes sense but the industry right now is hurting and while everyone wants to guess what's going to happen next, we really don't know.

I'm sure someone will disagree but that's just my opinion because you said you're interested in 121. You've already got the degree, young age, good attitude. You'd be golden. Plus, you never know when life will hit you and what delays that might bring. Just a thought.

My thoughts exactly, a few weeks ago i was very close to pulling the trigger on the full zero to hero program with ATP but after really looking into the loan i realized that a $900 per month loan repayment for 15 years would be absolutely miserable. We would have had to wait until our lease is up in November for me to begin ATP regardless so by taking this route i figure ill save a decent amount of money and will only be set back one or two months more than originally planned. Right now I'm planning on beginning training in about a month and hopefully completing my private in 6 months or less.

 

[tcco94]

My thoughts exactly, a few weeks ago i was very close to pulling the trigger on the full zero to hero program with ATP but after really looking into the loan i realized that a $900 per month loan repayment for 15 years would be absolutely miserable. We would have had to wait until our lease is up in November for me to begin ATP regardless so by taking this route i figure ill save a decent amount of money and will only be set back one or two months more than originally planned. Right now I'm planning on beginning training in about a month and hopefully completing my private in 6 months or less.

I'd say good call on not ATP because you pay a lot for the name (same for aviation universities)...but I'd still have a mentality to try to get it done in a time frame you set. ATP is a fine school from what I've heard but that's like a full time job and literally THE fastest way to get it. Somewhere in the middle and you should be good. The faster the better though.

 

[Rotor2Wing]

No first hand knowledge of the school but have you looked at St. Charles Flying Service? They've been around a while.

http://www.stcharlesflyingservice.com/

 

[ShyFlyer]

I'd budget about $10K for the PPL. No more than that.

As for ATP, the beauty of getting your PPL before delving into their program is that you can ease into flight training. You'll get to see how a self-paced program works for you. Also, I seem to recall with ATP's zero to hero, you will not solo before 50 hours, even if you're ready to do so before that.

 

[future pilot]

I'd say good call on not ATP because you pay a lot for the name (same for aviation universities)...but I'd still have a mentality to try to get it done in a time frame you set. ATP is a fine school from what I've heard but that's like a full time job and literally THE fastest way to get it. Somewhere in the middle and you should be good. The faster the better though.

Well i think I'm still going to do the ATP route, just after getting my PPL. like @ShyFlyer said i figured it would be best to ease into flight training so i could figure out the best way for me to learn. Plus after doing the math and realizing they charge 13 grand for your PPL i decided it would be dumb to pull out a loan when i could just pay it as i go.

No first hand knowledge of the school but have you looked at St. Charles Flying Service? They've been around a while.

http://www.stcharlesflyingservice.com/

Funny you mention them, i actually did my discovery flight with them. The school seems great, the only issue is its about 45 minutes from where i live and work.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

After that the (tentative) plan is for the girlfriend and i to pack everything up and move to Tampa where i will get the rest of my ratings at ATP.

One question i have for anyone familiar with the STL area, i'm looking into High Altitude Flying Company (http://www.flyhafc.com/) to get my private in the evenings after work and on the weekends. Their website advertises roughly $7,300 for a private course.

While I have zero personal knowledge of the school, the 172N or Katana are both great airplanes to learn in, and the prices are totally reasonable. Even better, they are close to you. $7k is optimistic, but if you are young, and study religiously before lessons, it isn't unheard of. $9k is more likely with those prices. Or it takes a month longer than your originally thought - not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. You need the total time later regardless, so it isn't like it is wasted money.

As for packing up to get the rest of the ratings - while Tampa Bay is a great place to fly, I would still look at the costs with ATP, we have some other great operations here that would be much cheaper - I'm currently instructing at 2 of them. My advice would be to do the PPL, and the instrument rating as well while you are at you day job in STL. After that, you will probably realize that the other two ratings you need (C-ASEL and CFI-A) are far more easily obtainable than you would think now. At that point, if I were you, I would be looking at the flight schools you want to teach at more than anything else. Talk to the operators there about your employment prospects before you make a decision about where to do the commercial/CFI (depending on the flight time you walk in with, those can be as quick as a few weeks). Florida and Arizona are the default choices - cheap places to live, with weather conducive to flying and lots of jobs.

Anyway, short answer: Get PPL, plan a nice vacation in Tampa for a few days and do checkout flights at a few of the airports to scope them out and spend the afternoons on the beach. That will answer your questions better than any internet forum will. Looking for a job, KSPG, KPIE, KVDF, KTPF and KSRQ would be what I would be looking at, in that order.

 

[future pilot]

While I have zero personal knowledge of the school, the 172N or Katana are both great airplanes to learn in, and the prices are totally reasonable. Even better, they are close to you. $7k is optimistic, but if you are young, and study religiously before lessons, it isn't unheard of. $9k is more likely with those prices. Or it takes a month longer than your originally thought - not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. You need the total time later regardless, so it isn't like it is wasted money.

As for packing up to get the rest of the ratings - while Tampa Bay is a great place to fly, I would still look at the costs with ATP, we have some other great operations here that would be much cheaper - I'm currently instructing at 2 of them. My advice would be to do the PPL, and the instrument rating as well while you are at you day job in STL. After that, you will probably realize that the other two ratings you need (C-ASEL and CFI-A) are far more easily obtainable than you would think now. At that point, if I were you, I would be looking at the flight schools you want to teach at more than anything else. Talk to the operators there about your employment prospects before you make a decision about where to do the commercial/CFI (depending on the flight time you walk in with, those can be as quick as a few weeks). Florida and Arizona are the default choices - cheap places to live, with weather conducive to flying and lots of jobs.

Anyway, short answer: Get PPL, plan a nice vacation in Tampa for a few days and do checkout flights at a few of the airports to scope them out and spend the afternoons on the beach. That will answer your questions better than any internet forum will. Looking for a job, KSPG, KPIE, KVDF, KTPF and KSRQ would be what I would be looking at, in that order.

We are actually headed down to tampa in about about a month to check out the city, apartments, and ATP. Now that you say this it definitely makes sense to keep an open mind and look at other schools in the area. The main reason i am okay with the ATP loan is i managed to escape undergrad completely debt free thanks to my parents. I have many friends that have loans this size and higher so i am willing to take on some debt if it means getting to the airlines sooner (If I'm being honest I already get FOMO thinking about all the new hires that are inching ahead of me on the seniority list)