Need Help Making a Big Decision

future pilot

future pilot

Well-Known Member
Greetings all,

For starters I just want to apologize in advance if I have placed this in the wrong forum topic. I couldn’t think of what else it could be under so I placed it here.

It has been quite some time since I have been active on this forum. The last time I was active was actually while I was in high school. Five years later, I am 23 years old preparing to graduate college with a bachelors degree in business. With graduation approaching very quickly I have been putting a considerable amount of thought into what I want to do with my future. As it stands now, I have a job with a large corporation that I interned with over the summer waiting for me after I graduate. While most people would be very happy and excited at the thought of a guaranteed job after graduation, I find that it brings more stress. Something that I have realized in recent months, is I just cannot seem to shake the aviation bug. Being an airline pilot is the only thing I have ever actually seen myself doing for a career. As of now I am strongly considering chasing this lifelong dream of mine, however I am having trouble justifying trading in my degree in business, and a job that I know that I have for alot of money spent on flight training and a few more years of making little to no money.

So here comes the main point of this tread. I have begun looking (Again) at flight schools around the country where it could be feasible to get my training and I would greatly appreciate your advice on which routes I could go down. I am from St. Louis and will be moving back in three months after graduation. ATP has really stuck out to me, with their career fast track that caters to people that are intent on becoming airline pilots. What are your thoughts on ATP? Does anyone know of a reputable flight school in the St. Louis area? Also, in your opinion is the airline industry stable enough that airlines will still be hiring in two years, or however long it takes me to complete my flight training and meet the 1500-hour mark? And finally, I know that ATP promotes a zero time to airline pilot in two years, but realistically, how much time could I expect it to take before I have a chance at the right seat of a regional if I choose to go this route?
 
future pilot said:
Also, in your opinion is the airline industry stable enough that airlines will still be hiring in two years, or however long it takes me to complete my flight training and meet the 1500-hour mark? And finally, I know that ATP promotes a zero time to airline pilot in two years, but realistically, how much time could I expect it to take before I have a chance at the right seat of a regional if I choose to go this route?
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Given current demographics, airlines will be hiring for quite some time. Until they don't. But, if you want to fly, fly.

You are already accustomed to making no money, so that shouldn't be too hard. Take the job you don't want, spend the money on whatever local flight school you like, and enjoy having access to an airplane that will get you out of St Louis whenever possible ;)

As of right now, having a pulse and 1,500 hours will get you a job. Having a degree opens even more doors, well done. Get a PPL, use the new job pay for it, give yourself six months to do it. Take a vacation. Get an instrument rating, give yourself six months, take another vacation. Hopefully you'll get a raise by then. Then start looking around for a CFI job someplace you want to live. By that point, you'll be able to figure out how to get commercial/CFI quickly, and not have borrowed any money, and trust me, you have plenty of time.

Best of luck.
 
If you want to fly, then go fly! If you can get into it with little to no debt then even better. Having a decent job where you can support yourself and even pay for your own training will pay off dividends when you are trying to get by on regional FO pay. That said, I know those pay rates are increasing and many airlines are offering bonuses. I'm not sure where they'll be in 2 or 3 years but given the hiring forecasts you're not going to miss out (knock on wood.)

If you honestly cannot fathom doing anything other than flying for the next three or four decades, well, then there's your answer. Good luck and we'll see you up there. Don't ever hesitate to bring your questions to these forums either.

Oh, congrats on graduating, that is a huge accomplishment!
 
I'm with drunkenbeagle; Get into the real world and make some money. Live cheap and fly at your local FBO or try and find a partnership on a 150 or something and enjoy your training while you work without any real deadlines. No reason to go 80k in debt when you could use your degree and pay as you go. Work your way through your ratings and make some contacts at your local airport.

I managed to beg borrow and steal my way through my multi commercial and along the way talked to enough pilots to see the effects of airline life that I decided I was completely content turning wrenches and being at home at night. I got my CFI to help fund my flying itch and fly for fun when I want too and where I want too. Best of all I have no debt and nothing but good times to account for all those hours.
 
Be frugal and make it happen. I took what I still think was a leap of faith and did it. I am happy and look forward to the future and what it holds. It's not all peaches and cream but it is enjoyable. Find a school that treats you well and will put some money in your pocket once you gain your CFI.

If its what you want to do, then you will find a way. Be smart, do your research, and hope for the best.
 
Sure, if you want to operate aviation appliances, operate them. Don't let anything get in your way. Etc etc.

But far more important than that is enriching your life with knowledge, experiences, friendships, etc. If memory serves, at your age and position in life, it seems like what you do to earn money is your identity. But it isn't. Like, not at all. It's what you do when you're not being paid that is going to matter to you. Or so I confidently predict.

In the end, you could be flying airplanes or digging ditches...your satisfaction with your life and circumstances is going to have essentially nothing to do with either. *shrug* Also: If you stay in STL, don't be the kind of dude who hangs out in Laclede's landing.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Also: If you stay in STL, don't be the kind of dude who hangs out in Laclede's landing.
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***Which would be, the only place I ever saw @Boris Badenov in STL...

If you want to fly airplanes, fly airplanes. A hint from someone that has done it before, they are way more fun to fly with your friends on the weekend. They are way less fun to fly for 7 hours at a time when you just want lunch or a nap. Still, probably better than the cubicle.

But you should work your way through corporate America for a year or two to pay for it. At least you will have the motivation of not wanting to back to it when you are stuck in a hotel in STL for training.
 
You're getting excellent advice in this thread. One twist that I might add - if you have a good-paying, steady job and low overhead, you might consider buying an airplane and using it for training, and then selling it when you're done. Decent trainers with some time left in them hold their value quite well.

The biggest advantage you have is time. You're 23. You have PLENTY of time to do this without getting into soul-crushing debt.

Everything @drunkenbeagle said here is spot-on. I, too, have only run into @Boris Badenov in St. Louis, by the way, Vegas events notwithstanding. He's odd that way.
 
I think you answered your own question but I'm going to comment/dissect the last sentence of your third paragraph:
future pilot said:
.......... I am strongly considering chasing this lifelong dream of mine, however I am having trouble justifying trading in my degree in business, and a job that I know that I have for alot of money spent on flight training and a few more years of making little to no money....
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After you stated this, it kind of made your question mute. If you sit at a desk for the rest of your life, all the while day dreaming about flying, you're doing a disservice to both your employer and yourself (AND your family when that time comes along).
future pilot said:
........I am strongly considering chasing this lifelong dream of mine, however I am having trouble justifying trading in my degree in business, and a job that I know that I have for alot of money spent on flight training and a few more years of making little to no money....
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You are NOT "trading in" your degree! If you want to fly for the majors, many REQUIRE a degree regardless of your FLIGHT experience. You won't work for them without one; consider this a necessary step to your goal. Besides, the degree is a great notch to have in your belt and will provide for you numerous opportunities, including flying for the airlines. Work your job and fly on the side.
future pilot said:
..........I am strongly considering chasing this lifelong dream of mine, however I am having trouble justifying trading in my degree in business, and a job that I know that I have for alot of money spent on flight training and a few more years of making little to no money...
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You better tighten up your belt and prepare for this one if you want to fly for the airlines. While pay may increase in the near future, starting out, you will most likely make more money as an airport window washer. And you'll have relatively lower pay for years before moving up the ladder.......EXPECT this!
 
All good advice. I took a job Firefighting at 23 and thought that would cure the aviation urge - it didn't. Now I'm 30 and finishing up on the commercial and find myself unable to concentrate at my office job. :) Like dustoff said, you're doing a disservice to yourself and your employer.

Grab the ratings and see where life takes you!
 
A lot of valid points in reply. I'd say that if you've got a guaranteed corporate job, why not do it for a year or two while you get your ratings? You'll have positive cash flow, learn how much a corporate job sucks (I've got an MBA and can't imagine going back to banking, etc), and generally be better off than if you'd just gone into debt.

I've been flying a survey project out of SUS the last few weeks, and Air Associates of Missouri there seems to be a good outfit. Granted, I've only had direct experience with their maintenance shop, but the facilities looked good and the operation well run. So you might give them a look if you're near Chesterfield (I think that's where ATP is anyway).
 
jetBlue is looking for a few good aviators, all it takes is $125,200, interview, essay and you get in the right seat of a E190 after a few years with 1,500 hrs. :sarcasm: :stir: But seriously, there are many paths to become a pilot, but like everyone says, try to do it without getting into debt, (not sure if you have any college debt right now) which will make your first few years manageable when you start getting paid to fly. Or you can work during the day and fly at night and weekends, but you would have to find a local school to work with your schedule. Like @uavking mentioned, you get a taste of the corporate life and money for training, just don't get trap by the golden handcuff!
 
You might consider taking the job with the large corporation. This would give you a chance to experience cubicle life and office politics (for a VERY accurate primer on these subjects watch Office Space). You can work on your certificates on weekends, and possibly during evenings. In 24 months you could have your Private, Commercial, and Multi, assuming you aren't going into investment banking or private equity. Following this path will let you evaluate your fit with the corporate world, and if you find that the fit isn't there you will be well positioned to change careers.

You didn't ask about it, but you're young and it may be on your radar screen: if you are considering stepping into the LaBrea Tar Pits that is marriage, be sure to marry money.
 
I would advise you to take it slow and stick with the business job for a while. Fly on the side and take your time. At least get your PPL and fly a little before going into flying full time. If your business job is 60 hours a week and you hate it in a year, then reassess, but it would be nice to save up some money and a gain a little experience in what you majored in. I'd hate to see you spend 100K on ATP and then end up hating the airline lifestyle and making little money at the regionals.
 
First off, thank you all very much for the responses and advice. Although I'm getting a sense of displeasure for the Lou from some of you lol

I guess the main reason that I thought ATP would be a good decision is because I get this feeling that it is important to get into the profession as soon as possible. Mainly so I have enough time to climb the ladder. You all made a very good point to take my corporate job and fly on the side. I had put some thought into it but thought it would take quite some time to get to 1,500 that way.

So I guess my biggest takeaway so far is by working full time and flying on the side, I would have enough time to have a successful career as an airline pilot?
 
future pilot said:
First off, thank you all very much for the responses and advice. Although I'm getting a sense of displeasure for the Lou from some of you lol

I guess the main reason that I thought ATP would be a good decision is because I get this feeling that it is important to get into the profession as soon as possible. Mainly so I have enough time to climb the ladder. You all made a very good point to take my corporate job and fly on the side. I had put some thought into it but thought it would take quite some time to get to 1,500 that way.

So I guess my biggest takeaway so far is by working full time and flying on the side, I would have enough time to have a successful career as an airline pilot?
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Seniority is important, but if you are in a position to pay for your training as you go it may very well be worth the sacrifice to not have a pile of debt haunting you for the next umpteen years. Once you can start instructing or doing some other flying job the hours will pile up fast.
 
future pilot said:
First off, thank you all very much for the responses and advice. Although I'm getting a sense of displeasure for the Lou from some of you lol

I guess the main reason that I thought ATP would be a good decision is because I get this feeling that it is important to get into the profession as soon as possible. Mainly so I have enough time to climb the ladder. You all made a very good point to take my corporate job and fly on the side. I had put some thought into it but thought it would take quite some time to get to 1,500 that way.

So I guess my biggest takeaway so far is by working full time and flying on the side, I would have enough time to have a successful career as an airline pilot?
Click to expand...
Remember to have fun along the way. At the 141 schools it's easy to forget about that. Also, Go Pack Go!
 
Great advice here and I have little to add.

Work the job you have lined up, save that money and stay out of debt during training. Also, take advantage of any benefits the corporate job has (401k, student loan payoffs, free further education)

Good luck!
 
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