Spirit Contract Now

wheelsup said:
I have nothing to add but it does make me smile when management loses control and the operation falls apart. Nice job guys. Do your job and nothing else.
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After reading some of the filing, Spirit directly copy and pasted things similar to what you just said from APC into their injection. If you're going to say that, I think you'd also be very wise to add in the fact that you are neither a Spirit pilot nor an ALPA member.
 
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Flying Saluki said:
But since you asked; American, Delta, et al, put 150 people on an airplane and charge $249. Spirit puts 180 on an airplane, but only charges $99. You do the math and tell me what you think.
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The math has been done already, widely. I mean, what do you think all of those analysts on wall street do with their spreadsheets? Anyway, the metrics that matter in the airline biz are Revenue per Available Seat Mile, and Cost per Seat Mile ( RASM and CASM). The difference is the gross margin per seat mile.

Feel free to look at the numbers yourself, but I can tell you - Spirit has one of the highest margins of any carrier. Their costs are about the same as Frontier or Allegiant ($0.085 / mile or so), while their revenue is among the highest. If we assume fuel costs are similar everywhere, most of Spirit's profit comes from having lower than average labor costs.

American and Delta, et al, have higher cost structures, but also have far better revenue. Delta probably gets about $0.15/ seat mile, with costs around $0.12.
 
L-16B said:
I like it better than pinnacle PBS whatever that was. I like being able to see how many pairings you've bid in each layer. They said bid your seniority plus 10% and you should be gravy.
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learhawkerbe400 said:
LUS and the small LAA bases have been on PBS since October. So we've got it figured out for the most part.

But the real nAAtives (DFW, MIA, ORD) switched over this month. Hilarity ensued on the company forum lol.
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We used AOS at my last shop, and I really liked it. It did everything I needed and was, in my opinion, reasonably straight forward as far as bidding goes.

I'll let @broncoav8r talk about the percentages.
 
Not really Germaine but, I'd vote for a TA that has PBS, but it would need to have wages equal or exceeding legacy rates.

Line bidding and conflicts is what makes a $78/hour job pull 6 figures.
 
pete2800 said:
Yeah. Happy employees are productive employees, though. So I'm left wondering what the incalculable cost of lost morale and loyalty will be.
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I've always wondered if the accountants include this in the spreadsheets. I mean, what is the cost of say a quarter of your operations workforce actively sabotaging the entire operation every day within the confines of their cba? And afterwards, what is the cost of possibly that same number of people being more or less stuck in that mode forever?
 
drunkenbeagle said:
The math has been done already, widely. I mean, what do you think all of those analysts on wall street do with their spreadsheets? Anyway, the metrics that matter in the airline biz are Revenue per Available Seat Mile, and Cost per Seat Mile ( RASM and CASM). The difference is the gross margin per seat mile.

Feel free to look at the numbers yourself, but I can tell you - Spirit has one of the highest margins of any carrier. Their costs are about the same as Frontier or Allegiant ($0.085 / mile or so), while their revenue is among the highest. If we assume fuel costs are similar everywhere, most of Spirit's profit comes from having lower than average labor costs.

American and Delta, et al, have higher cost structures, but also have far better revenue. Delta probably gets about $0.15/ seat mile, with costs around $0.12.
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Spirits' CASM is around $0.07
Delta is around $0.155

Spirits CASM is the lowest of all the major carriers, Delta is the highest. Spirit in no way has the highest revenue.
 
wheelsup said:
Spirits' CASM is around $0.07
Delta is around $0.155

Spirits CASM is the lowest of all the major carriers, Delta is the highest. Spirit in no way has the highest revenue.
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I meant revenue as compared to the other LCCs, Frontier and Allegiant primarily. They are all pretty close. Spirit has among the best margin, and probably the lowest costs.
 
How is Spirit supposed to attract new qualified pilots to fly new AC coming on line in the next few years when not only do they offer much lower pay ( for now ) but they also publicly take their pilot group to court for not working on their days off? Not only that but they told PAX that flights were cancelled due to WX so they didn't have to compensate them and then turned around and said it was the pilot group, wouldn't the DOT see that as fraud? I mean what Duh-Faq..... sometimes I think NK management only looks one week into the future at all times. I think it's time that they step up to make Spirit a good operation and stop worrying about how to line their pockets or get replaced with someone who can.
 
adk said:
After reading some of the filing, Spirit directly copy and pasted things similar to what you just said from APC into their injection. If you're going to say that, I think you'd also be very wise to add in the fact that you are neither a Spirit pilot nor an ALPA member.
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So now doing your job is illegal
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I meant revenue as compared to the other LCCs, Frontier and Allegiant primarily. They are all pretty close. Spirit has among the best margin, and probably the lowest costs.
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Spirit has the lowest CASM of all major carriers.

That being said without their lowest cost, they are nothing. Raise their costs and their advantage goes away. It does have a long way to go before getting to that level, SWA CASM was $0.12 IIRC. JetBlue is around $.10.
 
Nark said:
Not really Germaine but, I'd vote for a TA that has PBS, but it would need to have wages equal or exceeding legacy rates.

Line bidding and conflicts is what makes a $78/hour job pull 6 figures.
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Due to 117 regs, a fair number of companies are throwing around the idea of going back to line bidding. Of course, unraveling PBS from most contracts would be way too difficult to do, but PBS is no longer the company endorsed game changer it once was.

wheelsup said:
So now doing your job is illegal
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Nope, but during Section 6, if your job historically involved picking up an average of X hours of open time every month and all of the sudden you are picking up X-Y hours each month, that could be illegal.

Similar thing happened to me years ago at my previous gig. I don't carry MX. If a light is burned out at an outstation, it gets written up and taken care of there. I did that starting my first month as a captain. Towards the end of our negotiations, when things were getting a little bit heated, I rope something up at an outstation and due to the company's inability to have one hand talk to the other hand, it wasn''t able to get fixed and ended up grounding the airplane overnight. This was the fifth or sixth thing I'd written up that month, at an outstation. Remember, regional aircraft at mid teir companies tend to carry a LOT of MELs, or at least they did back then. A few days later I got called into the VP of Flight Ops office and told that I because I wrote something up at an outstation and that it was possible I was participating in an illegal job action. We went back and pulled the MX records of everything I'd ever written up (which I had no idea was actually tracked) and discovered that while the total number of things I'd written up was increasing (which makes sense because there was a bit of a maintenance issue going on with the fleet then), the number that had been written up at an outstation was much lower than my average.
 
BobDDuck said:
Nope, but during Section 6, if your job historically involved picking up an average of X hours of open time every month and all of the sudden you are picking up X-Y hours each month, that could be illegal.
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All I said was just to your job
 
NickH said:
Again, not surprising. Did the pilot's really think it would work? Don't trip on The 13th Amendment in the jetway as you go do your mandatory overtime.
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Great, so a judge ordered back to status quo....... so what, That literally does nothing. A lawyer isn't going to come to my house and make me choose a trip from open time. This really wasn't something designed by the pilot group but it did have a serious impact.
 
L-16B said:
I like it better than pinnacle PBS whatever that was. I like being able to see how many pairings you've bid in each layer. They said bid your seniority plus 10% and you should be gravy.
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jtrain609 said:
We used AOS at my last shop, and I really liked it. It did everything I needed and was, in my opinion, reasonably straight forward as far as bidding goes.

I'll let @broncoav8r talk about the percentages.
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Yea...the percentages... all the percentages tell you is what percentage of pairings are in that pairing pool. They aren't linked to your seniority percentage in any way at all. One of the very few holes in AOS in general. The algorithm that it uses however is outstanding.
 
Box hauler said:
Great, so a judge ordered back to status quo....... so what, That literally does nothing. A lawyer isn't going to come to my house and make me choose a trip from open time. This really wasn't something designed by the pilot group but it did have a serious impact.
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It means that until things are back to status quo, the pilot group will likely never be released for strike.
 
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