Air Force, Air Lines eyeballing shortage and 1500 hour rule

Actually, for grad school in MSE (math, science, engineering), they almost always pay YOU to go to school. Technology, such as computer science, not so much...it depends.

When I was toying around with the idea, the "hard science" PhD track would offer up full tuition waver, books, fees, and more often than not, health insurance, housing and a living stipend. I had multiple offers from top drawer places, and I'm not the smartest person on the planet by any stretch of the imagination.

The downside? The PhD track is LOOONG for MSE...usually at least 5-7 years after undergrad, and the back end uncertain to say the least.

Professional schools (med, vet, law, business) never do this except for truly exceptional scholarship cases. The only person I ever heard getting a ride to Med school had a near perfect score on the MCAT and a 3.95 GPA.

Like everything else, this is controlled by supply and demand. There are lots of people wanting to go professional school because the "back end" is there. The "squishy sciences" are, well, squishy and the liberal arts are, well, the liberal arts. Lots of people lined up for them for one reason or another, and in either case, there is no shortage of applicants.

One thing I did learn from my extra trip through school is ANYONE from ANY SCHOOL can get accepted to "name" schools, even in the Ivy League. You have to show you have the chops, though. If you're going to South Central East Nowhere Community College, you'd better max the grade scale out and do some extra volunteering/shadowing.

If you aren't going that route, the in-state option is usually a far, far better deal.

In any event, you need to play to win. The one advantage that a older person has in school is that the youngins' don't recognize that life is a game of inches. You need to grab all the inches you can, because it all adds up in the end. You don't need to be ruthless, but you do need to be "mission oriented" and highly engaged.

Richman
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I'll go take my online master's and be relegated to a continuous life of "just not Tier One/Ivy/whatever enough," thanks.

Although my undergrad education was sufficiently inexpensive to allow me to fly, which does pay the bills.
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i have an online masters #tier1
 
IMG_2282.JPG

It's not right to share, of course. I blame the Gin Martinis, extra dry, along with a somewhat mischievous streak :stir:. My dad used to remind me often there was nothing at all "fair" about life.

Still, it's out there ...


mrivc211 said:
Why did the student agree to it? It's not fair that I busted my butt, got up at 2am, drove 2 hours to throw bags, then drove home 2 hours to flight instruct 6 days per week, just to have a shot an an interview at a regional, then get paid $19.02/hr and no pay during training, no pay for uniforms, no pay for anything. yeah I know. You had it worse. Debt forgiveness my rear. If they get it forgiven, I want all my monthly payments back for my student loans too.
Click to expand...
 
NovemberEcho said:
More than student loans, the astronomical cost skyrocketing of tuition needs to be dealt with. The Fed used to cap Federal student loans at $50k (or around there). They did away with the cap in an attempt to make college more affordable for more people. Instead this backfired and almost immediately after the cap was taken away the colleges saw $$$ and that is when the tuition increases began.
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This ^
 
I wondered if the follow up was going to make it here.

The first article, Goldfein seemed ambiguous. It appears he's not anymore.

I was kind of surprised, given the consensus (at least on this board) among the military folks about the AF's staffing issues.

Gen. Goldfein seems like an intelligent person. I'm wondering why the disconnect.
 
This is like saying we should increase the number of caterpillars because more butterflies will make the winds blow harder.

It might work in some impossibly infinitesimal way, but all your crops get eaten in the process.

Richman
 
killbilly said:
Gen. Goldfein seems like an intelligent person. I'm wondering why the disconnect.
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A combination of self-indoctrination and Stockholm Syndrome.

I think senior AF leaders eventually embody the very things that we at the operational level see as the problems (because that's what's required for them to progress through the ranks), and simply can't accept that due to hubris.
 
Bamaaviator said:
I'm also in the process as well. What do you dislike about being an accountant? I've sometimes kinda envied people with the office jobs.
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The monotony mostly. Sitting in a cubicle without windows for 45 hours/week truly is a soul smashing experience.

I always wanted to fly but convinced myself doing the conventional college thing was the better way to go. I graduated in 2008 when the economy was in the process of bottoming out and the airlines were at their worst in terms of hiring and retaining, so it looked like a good idea at the time. Fast forward almost a decade, I’m 33, and the airline industry has rebounded and I’m rapidly reaching the point where I need to either attempt this or forget about it. The idea of spending another 30 years caring about things that don’t really matter, dealing with the types of personalities this profession attracts, and working in an office environment makes me nauseous.

I realize I’m probably never going to be in the left seat of a widebody flying across the ocean, but I’ll settle for a job that I don’t loathe.
 
killbilly said:
Gen. Goldfein seems like an intelligent person. I'm wondering why the disconnect.
Click to expand...

I actually don't think we're broken enough yet. It takes a lot of pain for a big organization to change, and the AF isn't there yet. Combatant Commanders are getting what they ask for in terms of air power, so our methods for retaining, promoting, and training pilots just aren't a big enough problem. The way we promote and move people is still out of some 19th century bureaucracy -I think it will take a severe ass-kicking to move that system.

Sadly, I think the whole "Air Force fighter pilot shortage" will go away here in 1-5 years when the economy tanks. Once the airline hiring pressure goes away, retention won't be a problem any longer.
 
hook_dupin said:
Sadly, I think the whole "Air Force fighter pilot shortage" will go away here in 1-5 years when the economy tanks. Once the airline hiring pressure goes away, retention won't be a problem any longer.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what the CSAF and the leadership at AFPC is banking on.
 
Richman said:
Actually, for grad school in MSE (math, science, engineering), they almost always pay YOU to go to school. Technology, such as computer science, not so much...it depends.

When I was toying around with the idea, the "hard science" PhD track would offer up full tuition waver, books, fees, and more often than not, health insurance, housing and a living stipend. I had multiple offers from top drawer places, and I'm not the smartest person on the planet by any stretch of the imagination.

The downside? The PhD track is LOOONG for MSE...usually at least 5-7 years after undergrad, and the back end uncertain to say the least.

Professional schools (med, vet, law, business) never do this except for truly exceptional scholarship cases. The only person I ever heard getting a ride to Med school had a near perfect score on the MCAT and a 3.95 GPA.

Like everything else, this is controlled by supply and demand. There are lots of people wanting to go professional school because the "back end" is there. The "squishy sciences" are, well, squishy and the liberal arts are, well, the liberal arts. Lots of people lined up for them for one reason or another, and in either case, there is no shortage of applicants.

One thing I did learn from my extra trip through school is ANYONE from ANY SCHOOL can get accepted to "name" schools, even in the Ivy League. You have to show you have the chops, though. If you're going to South Central East Nowhere Community College, you'd better max the grade scale out and do some extra volunteering/shadowing.

If you aren't going that route, the in-state option is usually a far, far better deal.

In any event, you need to play to win. The one advantage that a older person has in school is that the youngins' don't recognize that life is a game of inches. You need to grab all the inches you can, because it all adds up in the end. You don't need to be ruthless, but you do need to be "mission oriented" and highly engaged.

Richman
Click to expand...
FlyingAccountant said:
The monotony mostly. Sitting in a cubicle without windows for 45 hours/week truly is a soul smashing experience.

I always wanted to fly but convinced myself doing the conventional college thing was the better way to go. I graduated in 2008 when the economy was in the process of bottoming out and the airlines were at their worst in terms of hiring and retaining, so it looked like a good idea at the time. Fast forward almost a decade, I’m 33, and the airline industry has rebounded and I’m rapidly reaching the point where I need to either attempt this or forget about it. The idea of spending another 30 years caring about things that don’t really matter, dealing with the types of personalities this profession attracts, and working in an office environment makes me nauseous.

I realize I’m probably never going to be in the left seat of a widebody flying across the ocean, but I’ll settle for a job that I don’t loathe.
Click to expand...

What line of work are you in?
 
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