Four A-10 pilots grounded for low pass over Panthers stadium

[MikeD]

I'm more interested to hear how it is going to work out for these pilots.

I have some, shall we say, personal experience with this type of event. In 2010, a formation of jets from my squadron performed what turned out to be a too-low altitude flyby of an NCAA football game.

USAF rules for flyovers say they have to be at a maximum of 300 knots and a minimum of 1000' over the stadium. As you can see from the video, these T-38s didn't quite that 1000' minimum. I believe the official investigation found they cleared the scoreboard by 58 feet, which was an overall altitude of somewhere around 200 feet. The FAA tapes showed they were doing something in the neighborhood of 400 knots when they crossed the stadium, too.

So, here's how it worked out for these pilots:

USAF leadership found that the four pilots in the formation had intentionally violated flight rules and recklessly operated their aircraft. Initially they tried to court-martial the flight leader, but he was all ready scheduled to separate from the Air Force so he negotiated an extremely stiff administrative punishment and turned in his military wings rather than face losing them in an additional court proceeding called a Flying Evaluation Board.

The three other pilots in the formation received what is essentially career-stunting (or ending) administrative punishment, as well as losing their qualifications as instructor pilots and having the AF-equivalent of a busted checkride "for cause" in their flying records.

Two pilots, who were the non-flying "safety observers" there in the stadium also received administrative punishment and lost their instructor qualifications because they neither waved-off the low pass, nor called back to report the somewhat flagrant violation to USAF leadership after it happened.

I don't know any of the particulars in the Charlotte A-10 situation, but I predict the AF will try its best to nail those pilots to the wall, even if there are innocent circumstances leading to the flyby.

Like I said, even sanctioned events......not worth it. Not at all. At best you break even, normally you lose. Even if you thought you did everything right, you'll get some idiot moron ass-covering O-5 or O-6 mil-sizing some youtube video looking for any way to hang you.

 

[rockman2343@aol.com]

Hopefully they don't lose their careers over this, assuming nothing unsafe was done. In this day and age with everyone watching though, I wouldn't be surprised if leadership did something just to tell those in the public that complain about it they did something.

 

[MikeD]

Hopefully they don't lose their careers over this, assuming nothing unsafe was done. In this day and age with everyone watching though, I wouldn't be surprised if leadership did something just to tell those in the public that complain about it they did something.

That's the thing, I don't think these guys did anything specifically wrong. However I seriously question their judgement in doing this, given the fact that:

1. The USAF will hang you for the slightest trangressions, as has been proven multiple times in the past.
2. The age of video and social media nearly guarantees that there will be evidence of this, and
3. There's nothing to be gained from it. You likely won't even remotely break even.

So for those reasons, undertaking something like this, shows some serious lapses in good overall judgement. Even though what was actually done, wasn't at all unsafe in my opinion,

 

[mrivc211]

From a few days ago. An impromptu flyover of the stadium by jets from the 74th Fighter Squadron at Moody.

Flyovers. At games or especially impromptu, these days, nothing is gained from them. At best, you break even. At best.

Story/video here:

http://www.wcnc.com/sports/nfl/panthers/military-flyover-in-uptown-was-practice/310579810





The best are some of the online comments about the flyover though....as seen here:

"Whatever it is they're preparing for, it's a secret. You won't get any truth out of Obama or the government. This is unprecedented in American history, so we know they are getting ready for some kind of event. We have several possibilities and some get pretty exotic. Wormwood/Nibiru catastrophes and/or space alien hybrid invasion would obviously be on the exotic end of the scale. Economic collapse, WWIII, Red Dawn, Chinese Red Dawn, race war, civil war, second American revolution, and so forth would be your less exotic reasons"

"I work in Tucson az and there's constantly air force jets flying overhead all day every day. if there ever was a place conditioned for martial law it would be Tucson and surrounding area. sierra vista has a base, Tucson has a base, I see military activity all the time, border patrol checkpoints inside the us , tons of highway patrol, sheriffs, police, federal police etc. this place is screwed when it goes down. and everyone just acts like its all normal to have all this police and military presence"

"MORE "VISUAL INTIMIDATION" BY THE GOVERNMENT - TO COWER THE PUBLIC INTO SUBMISSION & OBEDIENCE. Keep in mind, these A-10's are NOT "Blue Angels" stunt planes - they are GROUND ATTACK killing machines. They were designed to attack TROOP CONCENTRATIONS (rioters?) and HOSTILE VEHICLES (mom in her mini-van?). THE MESSAGE IS CLEAR - "WE ARE PATROLLING YOUR SKIES - THERE IS NOWHERE YOU CAN HIDE - WE CAN KILL YOU."

"Exactly. These are not "show planes." Something is going on and what that is gives people that "bad feeling." People don't get that "bad feeling" for no reason. It's built into us by our Creator - not to be ignored. The Pope was elected the head of NATO last year and we are soon to be bound by their rules under the new regime and monetary power house of China, hence the need for a joining of forces so to speak."

"i've noticed a slight uptick of military activity in my area as well, we're gonna have more "oh we arent sure why it happened" if people question it, more "its just standard training dont worry about it" and "they're just tranferring the equipment to other bases". they gotta start stretching their legs if they're gonna roll out martial law by mid october. not to mention the two sets of 3 weeks of training the bases are doing starting early September."

No more fun left in aviation.

 

[Springer]

Like I said, even sanctioned events......not worth it. Not at all. At best you break even, normally you lose. Even if you thought you did everything right, you'll get some idiot moron ass-covering O-5 or O-6 mil-sizing some youtube video looking for any way to hang you.

Mike, the trick is to include the Wing/CC in the formation as I did when I led a 4-ship retreat flyby at DMAFB.

 

[Kimo]

It's an a10. That's what they do low flybys dropping some serious boom.

 

[Richman]

In the age of social media everything you do is recorded. In an airplane doubly so. This has changed many aspects of life. Including the local mountain biking... I must say I do see a lot of "strange" stuff here, I live near a National Park. Not so much military fighting vehicles but some really strange G plate vehicles with antenna mounted on them that I am still struggling to ID. There is a big government ship to shore instillation and the only way out there is to drive by my house. Also there is a lot going on with access to the park and trails that indicate to me we have entered new territory when it comes to Civil Rights.

Specifically surveillance cameras used on the trails to not just monitor animals but humans as well. Park officials have indicated that some of these cameras are operated by LEOs. They use an SMS system to transmit the photo of you in real time, right to the rangers smart phone. Grows are not a huge concern but are present. Still I try and work with NPS on trail access issues and trail maintenance issues and they are the worst organization in terms of transparency. It certainly does not make me feel warm and fuzzy about the government.

But yeah if I saw A-10s lining up for a ground attack on my house I'd be stoked beyond belief. What an awesome day that would be. I see some of the Travis AFB arrivals and departures. Some cool Beale AFB traffic, mostly just T-38s. They are always way too high up. FLY LOWER!!!

I'd be really surprised if our government would go at length just to get rid of a pesky mountain biker I can't really imagine the mindset of someone who would actually consider this to be a practice run of some sort for actually causing real harm. The Stingray units that can monitor your cell phone in the back of a police vehicle or light aircraft. Yeah not cool and a big concern. Military vehicles like an A-10 being used to harm people in the US, complete fantasy

When I lived in central Virginia, it was rife with fenced in compounds and weird antennas and structures jutting out of the hill sides. The density increased significantly as you moved east into the Pax River area. There was one spot that reliably locked up our KNS880.

And that was in the mid-1990s. I can't imagine any of that has gone away.

Richman

 

[killbilly]

When I lived in central Virginia, it was rife with fenced in compounds and weird antennas and structures jutting out of the hill sides. The density increased significantly as you moved east into the Pax River area. There was one spot that reliably locked up our KNS880.

And that was in the mid-1990s. I can't imagine any of that has gone away.

Richman

There's still quite a few.

A few them either don't exist on Google Earth, or they're blurred.

 

[MikeD]

Mike, the trick is to include the Wing/CC in the formation as I did when I led a 4-ship retreat flyby at DMAFB.

I need to find a Wg/CC these days who flies....all that much.

 

[Springer]

I need to find a Wg/CC these days who flies....all that much.

With all the PC bs they have to deal with these days I can understand why.

 

[NovemberEcho]

Well at least this is a more justifiable case than when the AF tried to ground and court martial some Lt's for texting Miley Cyrus lyrics.

 

[MikeD]

Well at least this is a more justifiable case than when the AF tried to ground and court martial some Lt's for texting Miley Cyrus lyrics.

"But they were using code words for drugs"

 

[NovemberEcho]

"But they were using code words for drugs"

Thank god common sense prevailed (eventually. After way too long a time). I was still in the AF at the time that went down and my faith was severely shaken that any of my leadership would ever have my back.

 

[Hacker15e]

The leadership never has your back, unfortunately. Regardless of the crap that they feet down your throat for years about it being a family and us taking care of one another....

 

[fholbert]

No more fun left in aviation.

Yea, the days of flying a B-17 under the Golden Gate are over.

 

[Kingairer]

That's the thing, I don't think these guys did anything specifically wrong. However I seriously question their judgement in doing this, given the fact that:

1. The USAF will hang you for the slightest trangressions, as has been proven multiple times in the past.
2. The age of video and social media nearly guarantees that there will be evidence of this, and
3. There's nothing to be gained from it. You likely won't even remotely break even.

So for those reasons, undertaking something like this, shows some serious lapses in good overall judgement. Even though what was actually done, wasn't at all unsafe in my opinion,

Why do you say they didn't do anything wrong in this case??

 

[hook_dupin]

No more fun left in aviation.

There's tons of fun left!

...just don't be dumb in a world where cameras are everywhere.

 

[Lawman]

There's tons of fun left!

...just don't be dumb in a world where cameras are everywhere.

Agreed.

I've done plenty of stuff that's on the reservation that seeing the light of day on YouTube would result in a witch hunt after me.

Was it legal, sure.

Was it tactically relevant and therefor smart to train, absolutely.

Would it piss off the wrong person if they saw the GoPro vid, oh you bet your ass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nark]

Agreed.

I've done plenty of stuff that's on the reservation that seeing the light of day on YouTube would result in a witch hunt after me.

Was it legal, sure.

Was it tactically relevant and therefor smart to train, absolutely.

Would it piss off the wrong person if they saw the GoPro vid, oh you get your ass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Say it ain't so....

There's a time and a place for everything.

 

[MikeD]

Why do you say they didn't do anything wrong in this case??

In terms of unsafe, that's what I mean by I don't see anything wrong safety-wise. But there's a whole heck wrong judgement wise, due to what I cited. Even though not unsafe, it's perceptions that will kill you in the AF's eyes. As well as if any AF regs were broken, then doing something like that.....again based on the social media reasons I posted....is more bad judgement.