Part 91 "Reimbursement Agreement", and the legality thereof.

[Fireflights]

When I was hired at my current job in Dec 2013, I signed a document that outlines the terms of type school repayment. This being my first corporate job, I didn't know much about training agreements other than that they were usually for the initial type, prorated over a year or two.

The text of the agreement reads:

"In recognition of this expenditure by Employer, the undersigned hereby agrees that in the event he resigns his job with Employer within the twelve months immediately following said training, he will fully reimburse Employer for the full cost of said training."

In retrospect, it's kinda harsh to require the full cost, but the real problem is in the next paragraph:

"In the event that further training or certification is mandated or deemed necessary by either regulation of the FAA or the private insurance carriers of Employer, the same reimbursement obligation will extend for the twelve months immediately following such training or certification."

Here's where the catch comes in. As I found out when I gave my notice last month, they consider our annual recurrency at FSI to be covered by that paragraph. I had to withdraw my acceptance at the new job because of this situation, and it was a much better offer than where I am now.
So, in their opinion, I can't quit without repaying the entire cost of recurrency, even if my last day is 11 months and 28 days from the end of class.

My opinion is that this is basically indentured servitude, but I can't really take the chance of going to court because this is my current job. I'd probably get fired and sued on the same day if I fight them.
Likewise, I can't really afford to pay the cost of recurrent training in order to avoid being sued.

Edit to add: this isn't a promissory note, there is no repayment outline listed, mine is the only signature on the paper, it wasn't notarized, and the guy who left before me simply paid what they wanted and bailed, so it's legally untested, as far as I know.

Any legal or "hey, I've been there!" perspectives would be greatly appreciated.

FF

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Wow. It does depend on the state you live/work in.

That contract sounds awful. Mine was prorated and only the first year. When they asked me to sign a new contract on year 3 and there had been no contract for year 2

I told them to pound sand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TrustMeI'maPilot]

Holy hell man, you signed your life away!

Never had an experience with this but my best advice would be to get a lawyer to go over the agreement and see what can be done. You're not going to get a real answer by talking to pilots.

 

[averettpilot]

Don't. Sign. Training. Contracts.

 

[NickH]

You would be right, that is indentured servitude. Looks unconscionable to me, check with an attorney. If the offer was better, you should have taken it.

 

[Fireflights]

If the offer was better, you should have taken it.

I did. Had a schedule for the next month, class date for the new type, and company phone in hand.
Then the current boss called to inform me "We'll be enforcing this agreement, and yes we think it applies to recurrency. BTW, I know your new boss, I can't believe he'd hire away one of my pilots. Maybe I should call him and tell him his company is poaching my guys. If he knew you worked here, he probably wouldn't have approved your hiring."
Very Mafiaesque.

Edited for spelling.

 

[Fireflights]

Wow. It does depend on the state you live/work in.

Arkansas. Work-at-will state, very clearly stated in the employee handbook.

 

[mikecweb]

Option C) go someplace not involving a&b. Not a day goes by where I miss 91.

 

[NickH]

I did. Had a schedule for the next month, class date for the new type, and company phone in hand.
Then the current boss called to inform me "We'll be enforcing this agreement, and yes we think it applies to recurrency. BTW, I know your new boss, I can't believe he'd hire away one of my pilots. Maybe I should call him and tell him his company is poaching my guys. If he knew you worked here, he probably wouldn't have approved your hiring."
Very Mafiaesque.

Edited for spelling.

Incredibly so. I would not respond to that, but take my recording of the call to an attorney preemptively. If the job offer were later rescinded, there would be a lawsuit. Either way, I'd name and shame the company online to protect others and recognise that staying at that company is impossible.

 

[FlyByWire22]

I signed an agreement for two years that was pro-rated for my GIV type. I'm leaving a year early for a 91 department that has been my goal for seven years. I told the owner and the Captain I fly with that I was going to pay what I agreed to pay if I left early - and they wished me the best. If you hold up your end of the bargain, and have an intelligent understanding of what you're signing - these things aren't the kiss of death most people believe. The one you signed however, is screwing you. Plain and simple. Most people will say that they're not "legally binding." While that may be the case, owners of aircraft have more money, and better lawyers than most of us. If you sign something, then try and bail without holding up your end of the agreement - it tends to get ugly.

 

[gotWXdagain]

There's "Protect your investment" contracts and then there's "we own your career" contracts.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Not said yet: talk to an employment lawyer in your state. Employment law varies widely from state to state. A lawyer who practices in this area will know the nuances and how certain factors are weighed.

Find out what your rights are and the degree to which that agreement is enforceable from a professional who knows these things rather than SGOTI.

 

[NickH]

Not said yet: talk to an employment lawyer in your state. Employment law varies widely from state to state. A lawyer who practices in this area will know the nuances and how certain factors are weighed.

Find out what your rights are and the degree to which that agreement is enforceable from a professional who knows these things rather than SGOTI.

This. Common theme here. We can give you an idea, but not real legal advice.

 

[Flying Saluki]

When I was hired at my current job in Dec 2013, I signed a document that outlines the terms of type school repayment. This being my first corporate job, I didn't know much about training agreements other than that they were usually for the initial type, prorated over a year or two.

The text of the agreement reads:

"In recognition of this expenditure by Employer, the undersigned hereby agrees that in the event he resigns his job with Employer within the twelve months immediately following said training, he will fully reimburse Employer for the full cost of said training."

In retrospect, it's kinda harsh to require the full cost, but the real problem is in the next paragraph:

"In the event that further training or certification is mandated or deemed necessary by either regulation of the FAA or the private insurance carriers of Employer, the same reimbursement obligation will extend for the twelve months immediately following such training or certification."

Here's where the catch comes in. As I found out when I gave my notice last month, they consider our annual recurrency at FSI to be covered by that paragraph. I had to withdraw my acceptance at the new job because of this situation, and it was a much better offer than where I am now.
So, in their opinion, I can't quit without repaying the entire cost of recurrency, even if my last day is 11 months and 28 days from the end of class.

My opinion is that this is basically indentured servitude, but I can't really take the chance of going to court because this is my current job. I'd probably get fired and sued on the same day if I fight them.
Likewise, I can't really afford to pay the cost of recurrent training in order to avoid being sued.

Edit to add: this isn't a promissory note, there is no repayment outline listed, mine is the only signature on the paper, it wasn't notarized, and the guy who left before me simply paid what they wanted and bailed, so it's legally untested, as far as I know.

Any legal or "hey, I've been there!" perspectives would be greatly appreciated.

FF

I think indentured servitude is not a strong enough description, because indentured servants have a means of satisfying their obligation. It doesn't appear to me that you do, because the obligation renews every time you go to recurrent. I've heard recurrent training can run in the 10's of thousands of dollars. The only thing I can think of off the bat is giving your 12 months notice so they don't schedule you for the next recurrent.

Let this be a lesson to all the others out there considering signing a training contract. There's nothing inherently wrong with it. Just make sure you have a clear understanding of what you're signing. There's a reason that fine print exists.

 

[hook_dupin]

Don't. Sign. Training. Contracts.

That works great for you. A company would be quite miffed if you took a type rating course at company expense then walked away a week after completing.

My view is that the most fair road is a pro-rated contract.

 

[averettpilot]

That works great for you. A company would be quite miffed if you took a type rating course at company expense then walked away a week after completing.

My view is that the most fair road is a pro-rated contract.

Fine but you better have a crap ton of protections in there for yourself. What happens if you lose your medical? What about life events? I've interviewed at companies that wanted a training contract and I already had the type rating and was current. So I have to sign a training contract for your required 135 training/check ride? No thank you.

In my experience, the companies that have training contracts are places you wouldn't or shouldn't want to be at in the first place.

 

[gotWXdagain]

Fine but you better have a crap ton of protections in there for yourself. What happens if you lose your medical? What about life events? I've interviewed at companies that wanted a training contract and I already had the type rating and was current. So I have to sign a training contract for your required 135 training/check ride? No thank you.

In my experience, the companies that have training contracts are places you wouldn't or shouldn't want to be at in the first place.

Although just about every 135 shop is requiring them these days. So best advice is make sure you have "good faith" protections, such as a loss of medical, or not letting the company enforce it should you be terminated without cause (layoff, furlough)

 

[averettpilot]

Although just about every 135 shop is requiring them these days. So best advice is make sure you have "good faith" protections, such as a loss of medical, or not letting the company enforce it should you be terminated without cause (layoff, furlough)

I suppose. I doubt many would be open to that though.

 

[Flying Saluki]

Although just about every 135 shop is requiring them these days. So best advice is make sure you have "good faith" protections, such as a loss of medical, or not letting the company enforce it should you be terminated without cause (layoff, furlough)

Or even with cause. It's the company's choice to terminate someone's employment. Make them eat the training cost. It's been my experience that employers who have nothing vested in their employees tend to be a little quick on the "firing" trigger.

 

[Lucky8888]

In my experience, the companies that have training contracts are places you wouldn't or shouldn't want to be at in the first place.

Your "experience" must be rather limited. We are fast approaching the $100K type rating. So, for a $180K FO, we are in it for a first year cost of $280K give or take. That's more than our senior executives make. Are we going to make that kind of investment with no guarantee a guy/gal isn't going to stick around? No way. Our training contracts (initial type only - we don't do them for recurrent) are prorated daily and the people we've done it for thought it was fair. We've only had one person leave in the last four years.

The point being is just because corporate departments have training contracts does not mean they are "bottom feeders." I would just say the opposite.