The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues

CFI A&P said:
That has nothing to do with what I posted. I didn't post about gun laws, effectiveness, magazine capacity, firearm names, raising flaps in the flare or Mickey Mouse. What I did post was Trump properties are gun free zones which isn't exactly supportive of the 2a.

Peruse any one of this articles:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+gun+free+properties



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“We strongly believe in the 2nd Amendment and are against gun-free zones. While laws vary substantially from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, we allow security personnel and other licensed individuals the ability to carry a firearm in an effort to protect themselves, our guests, associates and the general public,” said a spokesperson by email.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/08/dean-weingarten/donald-trumps-gun-free-zones/

 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
“We strongly believe in the 2nd Amendment and are against gun-free zones. While laws vary substantially from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, we allow security personnel and other licensed individuals the ability to carry a firearm in an effort to protect themselves, our guests, associates and the general public,” said a spokesperson by email.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/08/dean-weingarten/donald-trumps-gun-free-zones/
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Um, that quote wasn't from that link. However, right at the top second paragraph this was:

“No, we don’t allow any firearms in the hotel,” a manager at Trump International Hotel & Tower Chicago told ThinkProgress over the phone.

Guns are also banned at Trump National Golf Club in Los Angeles. An employee at the course told ThinkProgress that “we don’t allow firearms on the property.” Asked whether that ban applies even to those with a concealed-carry permit, he said that “with a permit we still don’t allow firearms.”


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Hacker15e said:
Executive orders have precisely zero impact on creation, modification, or elimination of laws, which are enacted by Congress and the Legislature.

This was just as true when people were claiming that Mr. Obama's Executive Orders would enact gun control that Congress would not.

"Pre-emption" cannot be enacted via Executive Order, nor can any of the other items you listed.

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You mean like the Bush 1 executive order banning the import of most Chinese firearms? Or the Obama executive order banning the import of most Russian firearms? May not be "laws", but they sure change how things are done.
 
Hacker15e said:
Executive orders have precisely zero impact on creation, modification, or elimination of laws, which are enacted by Congress and the Legislature.

This was just as true when people were claiming that Mr. Obama's Executive Orders would enact gun control that Congress would not.

"Pre-emption" cannot be enacted via Executive Order, nor can any of the other items you listed.

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http://www.thisnation.com/question/040.html

Quote from the link:

Controversy
Executive Orders are controversial because they allow the President to make major decisions, even law, without the consent of Congress. This, of course, runs against the general logic of the Constitution -- that no one should have power to act unilaterally. Nevertheless, Congress often gives the President considerable leeway in implementing and administering federal law and programs. Sometimes, Congress cannot agree exactly how to implement a law or program. In effect, this leaves the decision to the federal agencies involved and the President that stands at their head. When Congress fails to spell out in detail how a law is to be executed, it leaves the door open for the President to provide those details in the form of Executive Orders.



- Previous EO's have had the effect of preemptive actions. Not related to guns per say (segregation etc) but there is precedent. Article II is very generic, and places no real limitations on exactly what executive power the president has.

Don't take this as support of EO's, nor do I think that the federal govt. should be taking power from the states- but, there is nothing that would prohibit Trump from issuing an EO under the guise of "shall not be infringed". Would it hold up? Who knows.. If the republican maintain control of the house/senate than this is mostly all for naught, and it would likely be pretty easy for trump to make some sweeping changes..

Who knows?
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
You mean like the Bush 1 executive order banning the import of most Chinese firearms? Or the Obama executive order banning the import of most Russian firearms? May not be "laws", but they sure change how things are done.
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Apples and oranges.

I'm not debating that the Executive can have an impact on the firearms market (e.g. the above import bans, which have positively zero to do with the RKBA or "firearms legislation").

I am specifically referring to the quote in post #9, "He at one point said he was Pro 2a and would repeal any control legislation".

EOs may impact the implementation of laws (and, in some cases, have the effect of quasi-nullificiation of laws), but may not "repeal" any laws.

We are talking about basic fundamentals of how the US government works, here. Nothing else.
 
Does anyone not understand the fundamental legal difference between a "gun-free zone" as defined by law, and a policy enacted by a private property owner?
 
Hacker15e said:
We are talking about basic fundamentals of how the US government works, here. Nothing else.
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Ok, you want to talk actual law? How about the failed voice vote on the Hughes Amendment that still somehow managed to be "passed" and attached to the FOPA in 1986?

This country is in a downward spiral and I'm not sure its not time to just flush it all and start over...
 
Hacker15e said:
Apples and oranges.

I'm not debating that the Executive can have an impact on the firearms market (e.g. the above import bans).

I am specifically referring to the quote in post #9, "He at one point said he was Pro 2a and would repeal any control legislation".
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Well, that's what trump said he would do ! ( not what I'm saying trump would do)

"There's an assault on the Second Amendment. You know Obama's going to do an executive order and really knock the hell out of it," Trump said. "You know, the system's supposed to be you get the Democrats, you get the Republicans, and you make deals. He can't do that. He can't do that. So he's going to sign another executive order having to do with the Second Amendment, having to do with guns. I will veto. I will unsign that so fast." -Donald Trump. ( he continued at other points to expand beyond Obama, but no real point in posting it the claim is the same)
 
Hacker15e said:
Does anyone not understand the fundamental legal difference between a "gun-free zone" as defined by law, and a policy enacted by a private property owner?
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Yes, :). It is always within a private property owners right to allow or disallow guns. I've never had an issue with that. I.e Starbucks is not a gun free zone, but, the post office is. Schools "kind of" are depending where you live
 
Hacker15e said:
He'll "veto" an EO. Gotcha.
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Not my words! He did at a later debate continue into other actions beyond the EO. Looping way back to the original post though, if he does push gun control the way that the NRA would like him to, there would probably be an uptick in sales as previously banned markets open up.

The rest of this loop is all kind of pointless.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Ok, you want to talk actual law? How about the failed voice vote on the Hughes Amendment that still somehow managed to be "passed" and attached to the FOPA in 1986?
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Trying to understand what that has to do with the discussion here. This also has nothing to do with someone claiming Trump can create national pre-emption or something by EO.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
(Guess I should proclaim) I'm not a trump supporter. This thread gives the impression that I'm a yoooooj supporter.
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Totally yooooooj. Yar a great American. Yar notta loozah. The loozahs? GET EM OUTTA HERE! It's gonna be great. :)
 
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