WX Radar Training

dasleben said:
Oddly enough, the worst turbulence I've been through in the weather was over Germany in a cell that painted green.
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Our other Russian pilot, also a former 747 driver, was going into Moscow one nice summer evening. There were some buildups to be fair, but nothing over the city or south of it where we were. I was PNF, and enjoying the view. He asked for a turn to avoid weather. I laughed at him and said "your painting the city. Turn the tilt up a few degrees. Or just look outside". That was the end of that request.

Both were captains for Aeroflot and Korean Air in the 747.

The book comes out the day I quit this job.
 
dasleben said:
Oddly enough, the worst turbulence I've been through in the weather was over Germany in a cell that painted green.
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Was it winter time, late at night, with no buildups, below 10k, and you were worried about hail though?

There's always a chance of turbulence, even in clear air. Our radar doesn't do us much good looking for turbulence in those conditions. He wasn't worried about turbulence (we were empty), he specifically said we could encounter hail. It defied all logic I know about weather, but for now, he's our "chief pilot".
 
typhoonpilot said:
I tend to leave the gain in calibrated position 99% of the time as well. One time it can be very useful to come out of calibrated gain is when you have got yourself into a pickle and want to see which red return is really bad and which you may survive going through. In that scenario turn the gain down and you'll see the less intense red cells start to become smaller, or change to yellow, while the really intense ones remain red. Going from memory red starts at 40 dBZ. Some storms could be right at that level, while others are well above it. Using the gain can help you figure that out. Again, that is only in a worst case scenario where you get yourself surrounded by red returns and need to find a path out.


Typhoonpilot
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Thank you for posting this. For the life of me I could never think of a reason to use negative gain and it always seemed like a dumb question to ask. Makes sense though.
 
Derg said:
Meh. You guys can all call me a wuss but:

This-

View attachment 34982

became this:-

View attachment 34983

…with catlike quickness.

I'm good.

No extra fuel for deviations during convective weather? No problem. I'll be down in the lounge with an Orange Julius watching "Catching Up With The Kardashians" until you come up with a "Plan B".

If I want glory, I'll go fly mercenary in S. America.
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A mentality a number of regional Captains need to employ.
 
Stone Cold said:
Was it winter time, late at night, with no buildups, below 10k, and you were worried about hail though?

There's always a chance of turbulence, even in clear air. Our radar doesn't do us much good looking for turbulence in those conditions. He wasn't worried about turbulence (we were empty), he specifically said we could encounter hail. It defied all logic I know about weather, but for now, he's our "chief pilot".
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Oh, to be clear, I'm not supporting the guy you're talking about. Just adding my story. In our case, it was summertime up in the mid-high 30s.
 
dasleben said:
Oddly enough, the worst turbulence I've been through in the weather was over Germany in a cell that painted green.
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So all the push back about painting lower levels and/or avoiding green is only because I'm a dick? That's fine, but I don't think I'm wrong... :)
 
UAL747400 said:
So all the push back about painting lower levels and/or avoiding green is only because I'm a dick? That's fine, but I don't think I'm wrong... :)
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To be perfectly frank, I think you're still pretty off base about how your techniques transfer to jet flying. In this case, we'd been deviating around significant amounts of yellow, and felt it was safe to push through an area of green. More than likely, it was a frozen top.
 
UAL747400 said:
What did the company figure out from this? Did they bother or was it chalked up as "bad luck". :rolleyes:I wasn't going to say it, but I'm willing to bet all of my crappy pay that painting lower levels occasionally would have found this thing building up, but whatever... :)

Just to be clear, I rescind my douchey attitude and sarcasm from earlier, but still maintain you cant just leave it pointed at one particular level. Douchey attitude reinstated, I still stand by lightning strikes, hail, and more than moderate turbulence is entirely avoidable in regards to convective weather...:) The "cowboy freight dog" is being more conservative than the "end all-be all legacy, mainline, jet (like that matters :rolleyes:, the 4 of you or more on this forum that think it does are the ONLY ones in the entire world that think this that I've ever encountered/worked with) pilots" then. We'll agree to disagree then I guess...

Over the middle of the ocean, international, ect with not even close to the amount of weather products available, company approved or not, I could MAYBE see issues. Domestic, zero reason what-so-ever to encounter anything unknown under the sun, except for something FROM the sun, and even then, there are things that even forecast a lot of that! Don't really care if you disagree because I'll just assume you're a complacent pilot. Part 91/135/121 isn't applicable in my disapproval of your operating techniques... :)
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I really don't remember having this conversation with you, but uhh thanks! :)

The catch is, it's night, you can paint the 'lower levels" if you'd like to try, but you're going to get a face-full of ground clutter in the version of radar the SouthernJets 320's are rolling. Different planes have different radars and individual radars might work differently from unit to unit. Which is why, I think, we have language in our FOM about how many miles YOU WILL divert around certain return intensities because there are no secrets in the Brave New World of FOQA.
 
UAL747400 said:
So all the push back about painting lower levels and/or avoiding green is only because I'm a dick? That's fine, but I don't think I'm wrong... :)
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You are wrong. Sorry. It happens.

Radar systems vary. The same Radar system in a different airframe can vary in how you deploy it. You don't know what you don't know. Use a few different Radar Systems and get back to us. I don't think you're a dick, you're most likely wrong though.
 
PositionAndHold said:
You are wrong. Sorry. It happens.

Radar systems vary. The same Radar system in a different airframe can vary in how you deploy it. You don't know what you don't know. Use a few different Radar Systems and get back to us. I don't think you're a dick, you're most likely wrong though.
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Hey.

It's 2016.

You can't say anyone is wrong, that's a "Micro Aggression" and Buzzfeed is going to call me and ask about our "Micro Aggression Mitigation Policy" and I haven't written one!

Can't he simply be "Holding a non-specifically congruent opinion" so I don't get the millennial crowd after me? :)
 
PositionAndHold said:
You are wrong. Sorry. It happens.

Radar systems vary. The same Radar system in a different airframe can vary in how you deploy it. You don't know what you don't know. Use a few different Radar Systems and get back to us. I don't think you're a dick, you're most likely wrong though.
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I've worked with 7 different radar systems and I'm perfectly aware of how some can and can't do certain things.
 
Derg said:
I really don't remember having this conversation with you, but uhh thanks! :)

The catch is, it's night, you can paint the 'lower levels" if you'd like to try, but you're going to get a face-full of ground clutter in the version of radar the SouthernJets 320's are rolling. Different planes have different radars and individual radars might work differently from unit to unit. Which is why, I think, we have language in our FOM about how many miles YOU WILL divert around certain return intensities because there are no secrets in the Brave New World of FOQA.
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Aiming the bottom of the beam at 10k at a chosen distance is not going to give you ground clutter...
 
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