WX Radar Training

PositionAndHold said:
You are. And you will when the time comes. We're not saying it because we're gods of aviation, on the contrary, we're saying it because we have learned from our past presumptions. You don't know, what you don't know. I still feel like that. Especially after bringing a brand new airplane home from the factory. They say I'm ok to fly it but I realize, I don't know, what I don't know.
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Side note:

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about some stuff. I'm only a lowly junior captain on it, but I have a wealth of experience sitting next to me that I can ask questions.
 
dasleben said:
You have all these experienced jet pilots telling you you're wrong, and he's being the obtuse one?

Judgment, man!
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To those who posted links to useful reference material, thank you. To those that posted interpretation, speculation, and personal experience, that was largely confusing and hard to determine what was accurate information and what was bogus.

It would have been much more useful for everyone to just post the reference material that has guided your real world experience. Just me though.

Anyone know where to find this Archie Trammel video I've heard of? Can't seem to find it on YouTube or anything. Guessing it has to be bought?
 
averettpilot said:
To those who posted links to useful reference material, thank you. To those that posted interpretation, speculation, and personal experience, that was largely confusing and hard to determine what was accurate information and what was bogus.

It would have been much more useful for everyone to just post the reference material that has guided your real world experience. Just me though.

Anyone know where to find this Archie Trammel video I've heard of? Can't seem to find it on YouTube or anything. Guessing it has to be bought?
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http://www.bluecoat.org/reports/Gwinn_99_Radar.html

Dave passed away a few years ago. Big loss to the aviation community.


TP
 
Stone Cold said:
@UAL747400 So what do you do if the entire country you're flying to paints green? Not hard to find in Europe. Are you just not going to land because of your hard and fast rule that you avoid green? All I think most people are saying is there is no hard and fast rule for weather. If you're the guy disciplining guys for going through green and finding turbulence, then I feel bad for people working for you. It's a bad habit to start and doesn't work in other spots. The Caribbean is nothing like most of the rest of the world. This is why jobs discount Caribbean flying as "International".

Best of luck to you and the guys working for you.
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The only point I was really trying to make with all that mess was that I think it's better to paint at several altitude levels.

I think one thing everyone can take away from this back and forth is to not try to articulate a serious point on the internets when you're drunk as hell on rum... :)
 
UAL747400 said:
The only point I was really trying to make with all that mess was that I think it's better to paint at several altitude levels.

I think one thing everyone can take away from this back and forth is to not try to articulate a serious point on the internets when you're drunk as hell on rum... :)
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You've actually changed your story several times throughout this thread as information has been provided to you, but you're still trying to appear as an expert. Your understanding and experience are highly suspect to most of us posting here. I only take issue with this because you're actually in a position to make policy and teach; if you were a normal line pilot, I would have dropped it. But with you, it's important to get the point across, even if it seems blunt.

Should you move on from AMF to wherever else, this attitude is going to be a hindrance if you plan to move into high-altitude jet flying in the future.
 
dasleben said:
You've actually changed your story several times throughout this thread as information has been provided to you, but you're still trying to appear as an expert. Your understanding and experience are highly suspect to most of us posting here. I only take issue with this because you're actually in a position to make policy and teach; if you were a normal line pilot, I would have dropped it. But with you, it's important to get the point across, even if it seems blunt.

Should you move on from AMF to wherever else, this attitude is going to be a hindrance if you plan to move into high-altitude jet flying in the future.
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He's trolling. Check his Facebook page! :)
 
I think it's cute that you believe you can predict turbulence based on radar returns. You fly that desk about as well as you work that radar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Derg said:
Meh. You guys can all call me a wuss but:

This-

View attachment 34982

became this:-

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…with catlike quickness.

I'm good.

No extra fuel for deviations during convective weather? No problem. I'll be down in the lounge with an Orange Julius watching "Catching Up With The Kardashians" until you come up with a "Plan B".

If I want glory, I'll go fly mercenary in S. America.
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That's actually a pretty stupid hole to try to punch through. You have to commit way to far out. If you're going to punch through a gap you better be damn sure it's going to be there and if it isn't you have an out. He didn't have either.
 
Derg said:
He's trolling. Check his Facebook page! :)
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Only a little though. I was mostly being stubborn

I don't know why I didn't just draw this out before getting all stubbornly buttheaded, but yeah, aiming the center of the beam at 20k seems like a perfect baseline for most altitudes. Bottom of the beam would even still paint the lower altitudes at 100nm out that I am obsessed with. My bad @typhoonpilot @dasleben @mikecweb @Stone Cold @Derg and @wheelsup anyone else I forgot. I learned something new, so that's good I suppose

As far as what to avoid, we'll probably just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. ...and no, as I said before, I have not formally disciplined anyone for lightning strikes, hail, or damage from turbulence, but it is discussed.
 
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jhugz said:
That's actually a pretty stupid hole to try to punch through. You have to commit way to far out. If you're going to punch through a gap you better be damn sure it's going to be there and if it isn't you have an out. He didn't have either.
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In the airlines, punching through anything is bad. It's not likely to change either, for those looking to move on yet interested in retaining their storm penetration techniques. Now I realize you're talking a gap, but if the gap doesn't meet the distance criteria you can't really make it work.

Our book states:

FOM said:
Weather Radar and Thunderstorm Avoidance.

Policy.
Weather Radar. Weather radar is designed for weather avoidance rather than weather penetration, and will not be used to penetrate thunderstorms (except in an emergency ....)

Thunderstorm Avoidance. Treat every thunderstorm as hazardous and avoid their immediate proximity. For practical purposes, the table below should be observed:

Avoidance Distance Criteria:

Stratiform Rain - may penetrate

Convective Shower (round or oval echo, steep symmetrical gradient, radar top below 30,000, isolated, no lightning) - avoid by 3 NM

General Thunderstorm (lightning present, round or oval echo, steep symmetrical gradient, radar tops 30,000 to 35,000, isolated)- avoid by 10 NM

Severe Thunderstorm (pendant shape, asymmetrical gradients, notches, fingers, hooks or scalloped edges, radar top above 30,000, southernmost cell in line, cell movement faster than 10 kts, NWS reported as lvl 5/6, prominent shadow) - below freezing level avoid by 10 NM upwind 20 NM downwind ; above freezing level avoid by 20 NM ; note: avoid flight below the anvil, remain 10 NM upwind or if possible 1 NM downwind for each knot of wind at altitude
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SpiceWeasel said:
In the airlines, punching through anything is bad. It's not likely to change either, for those looking to move on yet interested in retaining their storm penetration techniques. Now I realize you're talking a gap, but if the gap doesn't meet the distance criteria you can't really make it work.

Our book states:
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Follow that guidance.

At least 15% of your passengers aren't strapped in no matter what you say over the PA. Passengers get injured, flight attendants get injured every day, the statistics on that stuff is a big eye opener.

I avoid. There's no "on time, on target or the Red's are gonna bust through the Fulda Gap and there's going to be a armageddon-level nuclear exchange".

Seeking glory with passengers onboard is for idiots.
 
My wife, like most people, gets nervous, no, scared over the slightest of bumps. I'm seriously talking the slightest. Passengers absolutely hate bumps. Do whatever you can (within reason) to make the ride as smooth as possible, not even thinking about possible injuries. While bumps are annoying for us because it makes it difficult to keep the Diet Coke steady while reading our company material on the transcon, it is downright frightening for a good percentage of travelers. Just something to think about.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
In the airlines, punching through anything is bad. It's not likely to change either, for those looking to move on yet interested in retaining their storm penetration techniques. Now I realize you're talking a gap, but if the gap doesn't meet the distance criteria you can't really make it work.

Our book states:
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Do you what source this was derived from by any chance? I like this a lot more than our guidance!

Our GOM, most likely derived from the AC-24C and the FAAST article just say to avoid convective weather by 20 miles. Some more specific guidance like this, especially concerning cumulus stage thunderstorms, would be nice if it were available to GA.
 
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