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There was only one or two high ups that really put it out like that. One is still there for sure.
Ameriflight
- Thread starter Shiner
- Start date
There was only one or two high ups that really put it out like that. One is still there for sure.
A150K
Well-Known Member
There is one who still puts it out like that. The rest are fairly straight forward about how it really is.
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Yea I know who you are talking about I'm sure.
KLB
Well-Known Member
I forgot about the ones that went to JetBlue and the Cathay one.
But there was a time where AMF guys were going to many different places.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
As it stands right now you kind of need a high up internal to get these jobs. Even if you have 121 experience. I wouldn't discount a jump because of that.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
I have been called metro, that is my only experience with the Metro
Well I disagree with you that certain time isn't better than other, and so would the industry. AMF pilots are some of the best pilots in the world - at flying single pilot freight in ancient airplanes to crappy uncontrolled fields, at odd hours.
I think we can all agree that the foundational skills built at places like AMF are invaluable. Flying /A isn't easy, and it is a skill set for sure. But so is flying a completely automated, modern glass airplane in a multi-crew environment. Hell the plane I fly can't even be dispatched legally to fly green needle. 121 or 135 jet flying isn't harder, it is easier. Flying single pilot freight is harder any day of the week and that is an absolute fact. But it is different, and when it is different, HR gets to decide that 121 flying in an RJ is more relevant to flying a 737 in a 121 environment (I don't think anyone would disagree with that) but that means that a screen reader sitting in an office is going to hire those types of pilots. That isn't all companies but that is how lots of them are. Hell, Delta would rather hire a 2500 hour TT military pilot with C130 time than a 10,000 hour Bro pilot from AMF. Where is the logic in that!?
If there was truly a time when a Beech 99 drivers who previously flew a Seminole at a flight school, got hired at the top 3, then it will get back that way in come capacity at some point.
The only reason I disagree is because everyone that has left here in good standing has had zero issues flying anything under any operating reg.
Not being a butthole and following procedure is 99% of it I imagine.
Its the same with the military guys that come here for currency (yes, there have been a plenty of them lately). Starting pay on it and the 1900 is 10k higher than the regionals. Fly the Metro the way AMF flies it or you're toast. Some have found the way AMF operates it to be task saturating and resist learning how to. Not just the military guys; everyone that's ever gone through the program.
Main point and it's an opinion that's been forwarded from 13 previous AMF guys that I know personally. Nope, the operation/plane doesn't matter at all. Only your willingness to not be a jerk. The Metro and MU-2 is instant bar talk respect though. Except for the Jetstar. All hail the jetstar. Which is silly because the Metro is NOT a big deal. I'm betting the MU2 isn't either if you follow procedure.
XXXXX amount of flight time in anything under the sun in some kind of mission oriented flying will get you most of the experience I surmise.
I never found /A or /U any harder than anything else. /A and /U required A LOT more decision making on the ground but whatever corner you backed yourself into was preventable most of the time.
I've never found crew to be any more challenging either. In both seats.
You hit the nail on the head when you said "HR". If I were in HR, I'd do anything I could to reduce the stack. I'm not sure there's a single pilot under the sun that would agree with it(there's a ton of idiots everywhere that shouldn't even be flying for the regionals they're flying for now), but that is the way it's been for the last 15 years.
I will give one advantage to AMF and 135 jet operations with descent range. A MUCH larger foot print is covered. International flying is much harder to deal with than any particular airplane. You'd have to TDY or work at many bases to cover everything at AMF though.
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Ehh. I have flown with former AMF pilots that can't understand why bald tires are a safety of flight issue, I think it goes both ways. I've also flown with 121 rats that literally cannot fly green needle. And I've flown with AMF pilots that can't switch their mentality to a more modern, safety minded culture. But that is for sure the exception not he rule. AMF flying is hard, so doing it well takes some effort. That effort to learn how to do it the way the company wants will transcend AMF and will work where ever you end up, as long as you're open minded and can see where AMF falls short in their operating culture. It's so easy to leave AMF and think that every airline captain is a • because they deviate around storms or don't fly with a scratchy comm.
For the guys "built" for single pilot freight, it can be very difficult to function at another operation. But 99% do just fine.
For the guys "built" for single pilot freight, it can be very difficult to function at another operation. But 99% do just fine.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Depends on the regional really. It's not 10K where I'm at, plus your odds of being hired direct to the 1900/227 aren't great. So all things considered, you could make more year 1 at a regional than you could at AMF.
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I'm not sure if I was fresh out of the military and just needed quick currency that I would go to a regional over AMF. Especially if I already had an offer at a major and I just needed some quick hours to accept a class date.
But I totally agree money wise is certainly no longer an issue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But I totally agree money wise is certainly no longer an issue.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
57k is the starting pay in the SA227/1900. 44 in the 99 and chieftain. I'm aware of the bonuses and ability to manipulate the schedules to credit more time, but I'm not buying that one is able to do it for the entire year. The highest 1st year pay I've heard of at Skywest and AirWisconsin is 38k. Year 1-3, you're going to probably make more money here if you upgrade at every first opportunity. After that, unless you get into un-salaried management, the regional guys will pass you. Unsalaried E120 qualled ACP that flies with an FO at least 3 times a week pays 101,500 gross. Theoretically, anyone could do that in 2.3 years. I did...
The highest captain pay I've come across from my freinds that have upgraded is 80k everywhere (year 4-6). Right inline with the "take the hourly rate and multiply it by 1000 and that is your pay" rule. Some that have gotten into the training department have made a little more. But crediting 120 hours a month is not the norm for the ENTIRE year from what I can tell. No one has passed me in career earnings yet and I've been here for 3 years. They probably never will because of the survey job and Flight Express. They will If I'm here for much longer though...
You'd know more than me, but I'm not gonna buy it as the norm, because it doesn't sound like it is.
1600 hours is the absolute minimum for the Metro. 1200 for everything else except the 120. Given the staffing situation. It's not hard anymore to get hired directly into either.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
57k is the starting pay in the SA227/1900. 44 in the 99 and chieftain. I'm aware of the bonuses and ability to manipulate the schedules to credit more time, but I'm not buying that one is able to do it for the entire year. The highest 1st year pay I've heard of at Skywest and AirWisconsin is 38k. Year 1-3, you're going to probably make more money here if you upgrade at every first opportunity. After that, unless you get into un-salaried management, the regional guys will pass you. Unsalaried E120 qualled ACP that flies with an FO at least 3 times a week pays 101,500 gross. Theoretically, anyone could do that in 2.3 years. I did...
The highest captain pay I've come across from my freinds that have upgraded is 80k everywhere (year 4-6). Right inline with the "take the hourly rate and multiply it by 1000 and that is your pay" rule. Some that have gotten into the training department have made a little more. But crediting 120 hours a month is not the norm for the ENTIRE year from what I can tell. No one has passed me in career earnings yet and I've been here for 3 years. They probably never will because of the survey job and Flight Express. They will If I'm here for much longer though...
You'd know more than me, but I'm not gonna buy it as the norm, because it doesn't sound like it is.
1600 hours is the absolute minimum for the Metro. 1200 for everything else except the 120. Given the staffing situation. It's not hard anymore to get hired directly into either.
Sure, but going to AMF and going to a 121 regional get you to different places. At 9E, it's easily 50K first year as an FO, even a new hire. $30/hr plus contractual bonuses of 23K/year. I'm not telling people not to go to Ameriflight, I'm saying that if 121 is your goal, 121 is the place to be. But if you don't really know what you want to do, there are much worse places to be than AMF.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Instead of sucking the regional teet. Maybe you should compare pay checks...
I'm not denying certain QOL arguments, but YOU are quite idiotic in comparing AMF to the regionals for pay. No reason anyone isn't getting into a Metro or even a Brasilia within a year these days.
Under the old payscale, AMF pilols are ahead at the 2 year mark, Under the new payscale, it's around 3-4 years before the regional guys catch you.
By my personal experience. No one is catching me until they are a 3 year FO RIGHT NOW or captain at Delta. Most of that is AMF pay. You guys hate AMF and that is really REALLY cute and obvious!
z987k
Well-Known Member
They catch you day 1 at the regional considering the career earning potential. Which is why AMF can't hire people. It's all but dead end. In almost no scenario does a regional pilot not make more money over the course of their career by picking a regional over AMF.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Paritially in agreement. W2s the last 3 years at AMF. 30k, 44k (old pay scale),105k gross (new pay scale with FOs in the Metros). The possibility could be 57k, 105k these days now. Not necessarily typical and the fact that I'm most likely topped out, maybe you're right...
Haven't personally known anyone to break 40k their first year at the reagionals though. No Skywest or Compass guy has made more as an FO there vs a 120 FO here yet. Don't be an idiot, you haven't... It's already documented.
z987k
Well-Known Member
First year pay is irrelevant. A Metro captain at AMF makes more than a 1st year FO at UPS. And no one from AMF is going to a major. So it's a massive massive loss in career earning to do AMF.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
The timeline comparison is what I'm more interested in. I think if you can become a Captain at Spirit within 2 years (it doesnt matter), anywhere else, MEH. You're right. Carreer earnings wise. Personally, Airbus tables are cool, but flying one airplane for the rest of my career; I'd rather sit on a very very busted ceiling fan...
Disadvatage in both regards. Unless you're a hosed over SJU/BQN pilot, you're going to fly around 4-600 hours are year. More than that does suck more than the town ho-bag though, so yeah, the pay still isn't high enough...
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z987k
Well-Known Member
They could pay 100k a year to 99 drivers and it wouldn't be enough because in comparison, the schedule sucks, it's still not enough money and no matter what it's not the type of flying that is most likely to get you to a career job. It's still a stepping stone. One that you want to step past ASAP.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
edited, I'm In agreement, bro! Mostly