slowing without advising

Avalon781ML said:
I'm not being combative at all... I was merely stating facts; such as you don't know how we are configured and we don't know where the other planes are in the sky. Perhaps the lack of tone found with text is the cause of this misunderstanding. I tried to communicate understanding by offering the comparison in which pilots get wound up about not recieving vectors around bad weather... perhaps I just failed miserably in my communication. My bad.

With the "moral of the story" I was trying to convey that if controllers don't vocalize what they want (ie. "Keep your speed up you're #1 for the field") I might slow because at that point I'm trying to set up the plane early, the earlier the plane is configured the easier the workload is, and I don't know if others are following me or going to parallel runways etc.

I'm not arguing with you and I'm certainly not trying to take the jelly out of your donut... I'm saying there are things I can't see from your viewpoint and there are things you can't see from ours... and if we don't communicate effectively we both lose out. Enjoy the rest of your weekend @genot!
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Nah, it's my fault. I made what I thought was an absurd scenario and the pilot controller dichotomy didn't quite mesh with the audience.

Misreading the tones and wrapped in my narrative , I honestly thought there was a degree of admonishment for my not telling each individual plane, 300, now 280, now 250, now 230, now 200, now 180.

Though, I do know what sectors OP works. Slowing 50 knots on the JFK downwind (uh maybe not his area, but close) isn't the best idea.
 
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Here is how we were taught with speed control at C90 below 10000 FEET, if the final is not established 250kt to 15 miles from the runway 210/200kts from 15 to 10 miles and at 10 miles final speed 160/170/180kts to the FAF, unless it aint busy everyone gets a speed, if the final is busy you get slowed when we need it.
 
queeno said:
Here is how we were taught with speed control at C90 below 10000 FEET, if the final is not established 250kt to 15 miles from the runway 210/200kts from 15 to 10 miles and at 10 miles final speed 160/170/180kts to the FAF, unless it aint busy everyone gets a speed, if the final is busy you get slowed when we need it.
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We still teach this today.
 
Derg said:
Let's put it this way. If you leave a mad dog high and fast abeam the numbers:

Any other more modern airliner that was designed in the 80's (roughly):
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I was seat 31B or something of that sort on a widget seven five from EGE-ATL. Came in over ERLIN, pretty sure the rnav arrival name has since changed.. Anyway, as we turn downwind and start to descent to 7k or whatever it is, here come the speed brakes, full on.

We're driving down, fast. Somewheres abeam AJAAY flaps n' slats start coming out and we turn base... on the base turn more flaps... gear gets dropped on the base to final turn just roughly over 675, and as we roll out onto the final the boards retract, power comes up, and I remark to myself how smooth that whole 3 minute ride just was (giggity), minus the buffeting from the boards of course.

I was joyed at experiencing the short approach, and surprised the 757 was able to do it so well, even though it took speed brakes. It's not too often you see something like that in a Boeing.

I'm a fan of angry puppy myself, just never been on an approach like the above in one.
 
genot said:
Nah, it's my fault. I made what I thought was an absurd scenario and the pilot controller dichotomy didn't quite mesh with the audience.

Misreading the tones and wrapped in my narrative , I honestly thought there was a degree of admonishment for my not telling each individual plane, 300, now 280, now 250, now 230, now 200, now 180.

Though, I do know what sectors OP works. Slowing 50 knots on the JFK downwind (uh maybe not his area, but close) isn't the best idea.
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No worries... slowing 50kts anywhere in the NYC area will probably result in having a bad day... lol.
 
FM_Weasel said:
It's hard to apply C to A when a 737 follows a Piper Cherokee.

But yeah, it's good stuff.
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Someone tried to show me that method at RTF, and it kinda made sense, but like you said it's mainly for aircraft that will have similar speeds.
I've never used C-to-A, and have forgotten most of what it entails now. Basically when I'm trying to get a sequence established, there's a certain point for me (usually 15-20 miles apart), where I know the current speeds aren't going to work out. At that point I either issue a vector or a speed. Nothing I can really explain, just my brain goes "this'll work...looks good...looks good...plenty of space...no way this will work, better do something."
 
In my head automatically but unknowingly I've unconsciously always done something similar to C to A, but when they tried teaching me that in TSEW all the math just distracted me lol. When I try to sit there adding and subtracting my final sucked. When I just did it the way id always done it, and continue to do it, works out fine.

And as for slowing in the NYC area, if you do it you may not get yelled at but you almost certainly will get called out lol
 
I gave up yelling at the pilots for slowing early without telling me long ago. Now, all I do is vector them out for re-sequencing, keep my conga line moving. If they inquire why they were taken out, I'll simply say "failure to maintain assigned speed".

Second time around they usually keep the speed up better, though there are some stubborn ones that have tried testing me a second time. None has tried it a third time yet.
 
somewhereupthere said:
I was seat 31B or something of that sort on a widget seven five from EGE-ATL. Came in over ERLIN, pretty sure the rnav arrival name has since changed.. Anyway, as we turn downwind and start to descent to 7k or whatever it is, here come the speed brakes, full on.

We're driving down, fast. Somewheres abeam AJAAY flaps n' slats start coming out and we turn base... on the base turn more flaps... gear gets dropped on the base to final turn just roughly over 675, and as we roll out onto the final the boards retract, power comes up, and I remark to myself how smooth that whole 3 minute ride just was (giggity), minus the buffeting from the boards of course.

I was joyed at experiencing the short approach, and surprised the 757 was able to do it so well, even though it took speed brakes. It's not too often you see something like that in a Boeing.

I'm a fan of angry puppy myself, just never been on an approach like the above in one.
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-opens speed brake lever-
-Captain (CRJ transition) gives me a look-
"Well, they paid for an airplane ride!"

(If you think you need a drag device, you probably do: stick them out there earlier and use them as you see fit, so that you don't get to go on a Bay tour.)
 
Autothrust Blue said:
-opens speed brake lever-
-Captain (CRJ transition) gives me a look-
"Well, they paid for an airplane ride!"

(If you think you need a drag device, you probably do: stick them out there earlier and use them as you see fit, so that you don't get to go on a Bay tour.)
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I loved using the boards in CRJ coming into SFO. I felt shame for maybe the first couple of months and then I just embraced the pure utility of the drag and lift dump option. You definitely have to be smooth with lever movement to avoid thumps, but they really are a great tool for staying flexible in busy airspace.

I've been advised that my new ride has a very narrow window for "smooth" spoiler actuation in flight, but I haven't had the hands on experience yet. You flying yet, @Screaming_Emu ?
 
Cal Goat said:
I loved using the boards in CRJ coming into SFO. I felt shame for maybe the first couple of months and then I just embraced the pure utility of the drag and lift dump option. You definitely have to be smooth with lever movement to avoid thumps, but they really are a great tool for staying flexible in busy airspace.

I've been advised that my new ride has a very narrow window for "smooth" spoiler actuation in flight, but I haven't had the hands on experience yet. You flying yet, @Screaming_Emu ?
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If they operate like the sim, the boards on the 747 are pretty bumpy.

No OE yet. I'm fully expecting you to see a plane first!
 
Interesting thread. We are GA but fly into a lot of Class B airports. I normally maintain 250 until 12 miles out or so, then start a speed reduction to around 200. The falcon is slippery and flap speeds are 200 and below. The only time it was brought up by ATC was at MCO, when on a 5 mile final I slowed to 180 in preparation for final configuration. Tower asked Southwest to slow down because "a falcon was doing 160 over the ground for some reason". No speed assignments given, so I was a little surpassed to hear the 'tude coming across the radio....IF you need a speed to a fix or distance from the runway, let us know..otherwise we config on schedule.
 
By 12 out I usually have you slowed to at least 210 if not 180. I was more venting about the guys who will slow 20+ out when it's obviously busy and not have the courtesy to at least let me know they are slowing.
 
Sometimes a few pilots ask on frequency why I (and many other of my colleagues) assign 250 knots when we issue a descent below 10K. This thread is exactly why. Far too many pilots slow on their own. Heck, I still have at least one pilot a week who will slow on his/her own after being assigned 250 knots. No weather/turbulence/icing.

That one boggles me.


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