NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
At EWR we don't have you on a STAR til touchdown so that doesn't help. We actually sequence and separate here unlike some places that have volume but no complexity.
slowing without advising
- Thread starter NovemberEcho
- Start date
At EWR we don't have you on a STAR til touchdown so that doesn't help. We actually sequence and separate here unlike some places that have volume but no complexity.
You trusted that the controllers would know the capabilities of your aircraft better than you?
Sorry, not picking on you specifically. Really just going non sequitur to remind the bystanders that there is something to be said for "been there, F that" experience. Welcome to the club.
xdashdriver
Well-Known Member
You trusted that the controllers would know the capabilities of your aircraft better than you?
Sorry, not picking on you specifically. Really just going non sequitur to remind the bystanders that there is something to be said for "been there, F that" experience. Welcome to the club.
"Trusted" was the word the first responder used so I used it. Wrong word. I most certainly didn't trust his vectoring at all, but I complied with it as required by the regulations. I tried to help him understand the capabilities of my aircraft by asking for lower but they were ignored by the controller until it was too late. My original question was aimed at seeing if I could have slowed slightly earlier and thus MAYBE being able to fix his poor vectoring but the answer I am getting is "no", you have to keep your speed up. Like I mentioned, we tried to fix it but couldn't so we were left with the only remaining option, go around. Interestingly the tower controller wasn't surprised at our predicament. Apparently it's a regular occurrence at that airport with those approach controllers.
Papoo
Polar 1.
Slightly different take on the original question - coming from an international airline with worldwide ops, it can get a little confusing remembering the foibles of each countries procedures (expected and published). So, to be sure and safe, if under an assigned speed, I will ask for and speed deviation.
My question is; if you're under speed control, and subsequently cleared to the FAF for an ILS by APP, in the US, is the expectation that speed is your own?
EG LAX 24R - Leave SMO HDG 070 descend 4000 speed 250kts.
Then a base vector, HDG 220 speed 220
Then vector to final, with the words '10 miles from JETSA, maintain 2600 until established, cleared ILS24R'
At that point, at 220kts or whatever the assigned speed, are we then able to slow to 180kts?
Just wondering what the expectation is in the US. In most countries, when cleared for the approach, unless further speed is assigned (EG 180 to ABCDE), speed is at your discretion, subject to whats published on the approach charts.
Not usually a factor unless vectors to a low/close FAF when you're turned loose for the approach.
For the record, the vast majority of the time its a pleasure to work with ATC in the US. You may have your own way of doing things at times, but you're always helpful and get things done. Keep up the good work.
My question is; if you're under speed control, and subsequently cleared to the FAF for an ILS by APP, in the US, is the expectation that speed is your own?
EG LAX 24R - Leave SMO HDG 070 descend 4000 speed 250kts.
Then a base vector, HDG 220 speed 220
Then vector to final, with the words '10 miles from JETSA, maintain 2600 until established, cleared ILS24R'
At that point, at 220kts or whatever the assigned speed, are we then able to slow to 180kts?
Just wondering what the expectation is in the US. In most countries, when cleared for the approach, unless further speed is assigned (EG 180 to ABCDE), speed is at your discretion, subject to whats published on the approach charts.
Not usually a factor unless vectors to a low/close FAF when you're turned loose for the approach.
For the record, the vast majority of the time its a pleasure to work with ATC in the US. You may have your own way of doing things at times, but you're always helpful and get things done. Keep up the good work.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
In the US, once you receive an approach clearance any previously assigned speed restrictions are deleted. If the controller needs to maintain a speed on final (ie. 180kts til the FAF) it must be restated after the approach clearance. If no speed is assigned after the approach clearance than speed is at your discretion.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
I seem to recall the most they can legally request to the faf is 160 but I can't find my ref that.
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NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
b. When an operational advantage will be realized, speeds lower than the recommended minima may be applied.
c. To arrival aircraft operating below 10,000 feet:
1. Turbojet aircraft. A speed not less than 210 knots; except when the aircraft is within 20 flying miles of the runway threshold of the airport of intended landing, a speed not less than 170 knots.
2. Reciprocating engine and turboprop aircraft. A speed not less than 200 knots; except when the aircraft is within 20 flying miles of the runway threshold of the airport of intended landing, a speed not less than 150 knots.
z987k
Well-Known Member
1 and 2 should almost be switched. In fact 2 could read -
"turboprop aircraft. A speed not less than 250 knots."
And all would be well.