Full Length v Intersection Departures

AA34

AA34

Well-Known Member
This morning I heard a Southwest flight request and receive clearance for takeoff on 17R at intersection Golf at KAUS. This removes ~5,000ft but leaves ~7,000ft.

I am not an airline guy yet but was wondering what the rules, or airline operating procedures, were regarding intersection departures. I just don't see this often.
 

Attachments

  • image.png
    image.png
    162 KB · Views: 250
At my company you can take an intersection departure if performance allows. A quick query through ACARS will tell you yay or nay.
 
Yup, this is SOP for SWA.

Most pilots would not take that intersection because 1)would take too long to pull numbers vs just taking full length and/or 2)Would be second guessed if anything happened on the takeoff roll, regardless of what ACARS said they could do.

I always enjoyed my interactions with SWA crew and they have always been great with jumpseating; but as far as their safety culture, lots of near misses and luck can only take you so far.
 
Previous 121 carrier was full length only. So, you couldn't take a 8500 ft intersection on a 10,000 ft runway, but boy we could fly into sub-5500 ft runways all day long. Current carrier is pull the data via ACARS and find out.
 
The Juice said:
Yup, this is SOP for SWA.

Most pilots would not take that intersection because 1)would take too long to pull numbers vs just taking full length and/or 2)Would be second guessed if anything happened on the takeoff roll, regardless of what ACARS said they could do.

I always enjoyed my interactions with SWA crew and they have always been great with jumpseating; but as far as their safety culture, lots of near misses and luck can only take you so far.
Click to expand...
Same here. We have a list of authorized intersections on the release, and we can use those as runway names in ACARS to pull numbers.

It's usually 6 of one, half a dozen of the other for what's quicker - taxiing full length, or waiting for the return call from Moscow though.
 
I've taken off from that very same intersection on the RJ. We put the numbers in before we left the gate and just requested it on taxi. No biggie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
There's a good many airports that requesting full length is going to take a good bit more time to get out. 28R/EE is a pretty common departure at ORD, and virtually every airplane but the heavies plan on and take it. Up here in ANC 7R/J is the normal departure if the wind is ripping out of the east, but you'd need to back taxi to get the 2000ft left off, which is going to really mess up ATC's plan, and with ~10,000 remaining every airplane can do it.
 
AA34 said:
This morning I heard a Southwest flight request and receive clearance for takeoff on 17R at intersection Golf at KAUS. This removes ~5,000ft but leaves ~7,000ft.

I am not an airline guy yet but was wondering what the rules, or airline operating procedures, were regarding intersection departures. I just don't see this often.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Principle of Primacy.

Back in the dawn hours of my training, I had one of American's most senior Captains as an instructor. He explained -in no uncertain terms, and with excellent stories to support his terms- two procedures for flying airplanes (putt-putts or jets) that have never left me: Always test the fuel sumps, and Always take the entire runway length.

Profoundly, but I suppose somewhat ironically, it was so well ingrained that I've never since even thought to do otherwise.
 
Crop Duster said:
Thank you, Principle of Primacy.

Back in the dawn hours of my training, I had one of American's most senior Captains as an instructor. He explained -in no uncertain terms, and with excellent stories to support his terms- two procedures for flying airplanes (putt-putts or jets) that have never left me: Always test the fuel sumps, and Always take the entire runway length.

Profoundly, but I suppose somewhat ironically, it was so well ingrained that I've never since even thought to do otherwise.
Click to expand...

Have fun with that.

"Cleared for takeoff, intersection xyz'

"Unable"

"Is it for performance reasons"

"No, I just don't feel like it because some guy once told me not to"

"Ok, make two left turns and hold short of Yankee, you're now number 20"
 
Adler said:
Have fun with that.

"Cleared for takeoff, intersection xyz'

"Unable"

"Is it for performance reasons"

"No, I just don't feel like it because some guy once told me not to"

"Ok, make two left turns and hold short of Yankee, you're now number 20"
Click to expand...
I get paid by the hour! ;)
And I've never gone off the end.
 
Crop Duster said:
Thank you, Principle of Primacy.

Back in the dawn hours of my training, I had one of American's most senior Captains as an instructor. He explained -in no uncertain terms, and with excellent stories to support his terms- two procedures for flying airplanes (putt-putts or jets) that have never left me: Always test the fuel sumps, and Always take the entire runway length.

Profoundly, but I suppose somewhat ironically, it was so well ingrained that I've never since even thought to do otherwise.
Click to expand...
You sump the tanks on your jet?

Ya, uh, MX control can I get a 40 foot ladder out here so I can sump the tanks, uh also some screwdrivers so I can get a couple of the inspection panels off.
 
z987k said:
You sump the tanks on your jet?

Ya, uh, MX control can I get a 40 foot ladder out here so I can sump the tanks, uh also some screwdrivers so I can get a couple of the inspection panels off.
Click to expand...
If I can, yeah. Of course there are limits in certain circumstances. I guess what I'm saying is I try to do whatever is reasonably available to me to ensure the safety of the flight. We good now? :)
 
Crop Duster said:
If I can, yeah. Of course there are limits in certain circumstances. I guess what I'm saying is I try to do whatever is reasonably available to me to ensure the safety of the flight. We good now? :)
Click to expand...

But if your plane is more than capable of it, and you have the numbers to back it up...that's like saying you won't fly a 777 into visible moisture when it is below 10 degrees, because you know, icing has crashed a 152 before.
 
In my 121 career I've learned that runway behind you doesn't matter so ignore the 3 useless aviation quotes and I also learned that setting the pattern altitude on a visual approach is crazy talk. There's no winning against these guys.
 
Our airline put out a memo that we should take intersections whenever possible. Usually we don't even have to change the numbers. I've taken off with 6000' remaining on an 11000' runway and the numbers were the same.
 
8L at L was all I did at PHNL. I think we were about at 2000' by the time we were at the end of the runway as well.
 
The Juice said:
I always enjoyed my interactions with SWA crew and they have always been great with jumpseating; but as far as their safety culture, lots of near misses and luck can only take you so far.
Click to expand...

Wow. Bold statement. I disagree. If anything Southwest is quite a bit generous in safety margin. You should dig a little deeper and compare the numbers.

Anyway, if you can't get a 737-700 off the ground in 7000 feet you're not gonna do with 10,000 either. So long as the performance numbers are available and support the safety margins why the hell wouldn't you save the time and money to take the intersection? WN operates several hundred operations a day out of airports with well under 7000 feet of runway with 0 problems.
 
pljenkins said:
Wow. Bold statement. I disagree. If anything Southwest is quite a bit generous in safety margin. You should dig a little deeper and compare the numbers.

Anyway, if you can't get a 737-700 off the ground in 7000 feet you're not gonna do with 10,000 either. So long as the performance numbers are available and support the safety margins why the hell wouldn't you save the time and money to take the intersection? WN operates several hundred operations a day out of airports with well under 7000 feet of runway with 0 problems.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's the landings they have trouble with. :stir:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top