SrFnFly227
Well-Known Member
Not really. That is the flight attendant rest reg. It isn't defined at all in the pilot rest regs.
On-call and Rest for Part 135
- Thread starter SrFnFly227
- Start date
Not really. That is the flight attendant rest reg. It isn't defined at all in the pilot rest regs.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
Flight Attendants get it but Pilots don't?
Seems logical enough for me. :: Picard facepalm::
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Well, think about who controls whether metal moves in the 135 world, and how lobbying efforts could be used in the interest of companies to write regs that would benefit them.
The problem is, the regs are clear enough for large companies that are under a watchful eye of the FAA, and smaller companies that want to do the right thing. They don't need to be rewritten, especially given the numerous LOAs they have been issued regarding this. These regs are not goals, they are limits.
There isn't a company in this planet that doesn't know they are violating regulation and official interpretation by conducting 24/7 on call operations. My first charter company tried to pull that BS, and guess what, 4 years later and after being shown these letters, they still operate 24/7 on call ( luckily I removed myself from that nonsense a long long time ago).
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
This is a load of crap too. If you didn't feel you got 10 hours of rest? Well either you got legal rest or you didn't. Were you on rest for 10 hours? No? Then guess what...
Finny
Well-Known Member
Yep. Typical first 135 blindness for me. I'm glad I left when I did before something bad happened to any of our crews.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
At this point I feel like I should, in the interest of full disclosure, inform you all that my shop, and for some reason my POI, allow us to use "look back rest."
Unfortunately, a large portion of the pilot group here actually likes it, because it can mean more hard time off when not on call.
That being said, I am trying to grease the wheels with the pilot group to push us to 12 on 12 off call scheduling, as it is already done at our parent company. I feel like our management is willing to do whatever the collective pilot group wants, and I think real change can come from within. But if I leave, then some other poor guy will take my place and the cycle will continue.
So, there's that.
Unfortunately, a large portion of the pilot group here actually likes it, because it can mean more hard time off when not on call.
That being said, I am trying to grease the wheels with the pilot group to push us to 12 on 12 off call scheduling, as it is already done at our parent company. I feel like our management is willing to do whatever the collective pilot group wants, and I think real change can come from within. But if I leave, then some other poor guy will take my place and the cycle will continue.
So, there's that.
averettpilot
Well-Known Member
Well, your POI can't allow it, so there's that...
SrFnFly227
Well-Known Member
Yeah. F that. I enjoy good beer entirely too much to not be allowed to have one at dinner because my company is too cheap to staff properly.
It is amazing how much 25/7 affects you without you realizing it. Quiting my last job was like a weight lifting off my shoulders. My entire outlook on life improved the day I put in my notice.
It is amazing how much 25/7 affects you without you realizing it. Quiting my last job was like a weight lifting off my shoulders. My entire outlook on life improved the day I put in my notice.
Finny
Well-Known Member
I still remember my first day off call. I ran a 5K, went canoeing all afternoon, and had a BBQ all with my phone turned off and hidden in my dresser. Such a liberating feeling!
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
I didn't realize what on call was doing to my life until I took a job with a schedule. I was angry all the time, our CP was such a pile of garbage and we were treated like crap. The weight lifted off my shoulders was huge. Now I know when I'm working, I know when I'm not (week on week off) and there's not grey area in between.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
The stupid thing is we are adequately staffed for 12/12 right now but most pilots insist on primary/secondary, which creates a de facto extra off week at the expense of an on-call period for almost a week straight, depending on how much flying we actually do.
Fully agree. Taking the gamble that I can make real change here before a violation occurs. I want to make it better for everyone after me.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Summa y'all's need to read the FAA Mayors letter. It's pretty clear that on call is on duty and has been interpreted that way for quite a while.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...2009/mayors - (2009) legal interpretation.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...2009/mayors - (2009) legal interpretation.pdf
averettpilot
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that anyone on this thread has misunderstood that point. It's more important to know, however, that on call is NOT rest. If the rest requirement is not met, who cares about duty?
Either way, it's essentially saying the same thing that the other 100 letters have said.
Either way, it's essentially saying the same thing that the other 100 letters have said.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Flexjet has to be on top of it. They are large enough to be noticed. Same with NetJets. Everything is very much known in advance,because that's how it should be, that's what the law requires, and that's what companies should be doing.
Pilotcollin
Well-Known Member
This is a great post on the 10 hour rest. Is there a legal interpretation on what an "off" day notification is. I have worked under different interpretations. My understanding is it must be scheduled in advanced in writing. I have worked for companies that consider a 24 hour period without duty as an off day in regards to 13 per quarter.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
Even my shop accepts that the mandatory 24 must be scheduled.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Every interpretation on the subject says the rest must be prospective. That is you have to know before hand.