You're the FO...

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

That some impressive cognitive dissonance. You just finished criticizing the lack of hand flying skills of two accident crews!

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

That some impressive cognitive dissonance. You just finished criticizing the lack of hand flying skills of two accident crews!

It potentially could have been the one swiss cheese lined up that didn't have a hole and therefore break the chain of accident from happening into a mishap.

 

[BobDDuck]

Push lever go faster. Pull lever go slower. Me likey. And when I say lever I'm pronouncing it leeeeeever.

You don't even fly a Canadian plane.

 

[SurferLucas]

Can we, for the love of God, get back to actual discussion about handling situations that might arise in the cockpit...you know, because we might have "that awkward moment" ourselves at some point.

Sick and _____ing tired of every, single thread turning into:

[HASHTAG]#endrant[/HASHTAG]

Biggest thing I've found since switching seats and being based out of a new airport with new routes...listen/learn from your FO, moving seats doesn't give you all knowing abilities.
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

 

[AAPalmTree]

This started out as a good thread. I feel for you @Cherokee_Cruiser. I have had similar experiences with guys. The problem I have is that 1- You briefed it 2- he did not offer an explanation. It's his plane (doesn't mean he's more competent) and I'll gladly do it his way. But explain what you're thinking. It's good CRM.

I don't enjoy flying with guys that are afraid of the plane or flying. I also realize sometimes I'm flying with guys with 20K hours. There's a good chance they see something I don't.

I recently flew with a guy that said "I'm three years from retirement. I'm really anal about deviations. My biggest concern is starting down early. I'll ask you respect that and start down well before TOD arrow."
You know what boss... NO PROBLEM! But don't not tell me that and get in my business when I don't. Good communication alleviates most, if not all of these problems. If I know how you think I'm on board. If you just act
weird and conflict with what I briefed... I'm not on the same page.

And brushing the teeth? That's a good thing. If he's a former Airways guy you're lucky he brushes his teeth and doesn't look like this:

 

[mshunter]

I'm kind of late to the party here. But if it's previously briefed, "sure," auto throttles come back on. Then "why?"

I just had a similar situation with an overbearing captain on a 4 day. Every day was "do this, do that.". Finally, going into our last day, in the van, I asked him to only speak up if he felt I was being unsafe. I try my damnedest to fly standard. We were headed into a our last turn, and were left high. I had it at idle. "It's okay to use spoilers." I know, but I won't need to. If I come down much faster, I'll have to add a bunch of powerbto make the runway."

"Okay, if you're not stable by 1000, we're going around."

I was fully configured, spooled, everything set by 1000. After we landed, at the gate, shut down, pax off, I spoke up.

"Was I unsafe?"

"No."

"Was I outside of standards?"

"No. But that's not how I would have done it."

"Okay. Then you take the last leg home. I'm done."

Was a quiet ride home. And I'm okay with that. Point being, if it's allowed, within standard, and safe, STFU, relax, and let me fly the damn airplane. I get the feeling that there is a lot of piss poor pilots in the right seat at the regional level. So it immediately puts CAPTAINS on high alert. And that's good. But be a leader, not a micro manager. A lot of guys fly the airplane that has me scratching my head. As long as I feel safe, I keep quiet.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I'm kind of late to the party here. But if it's previously briefed, "sure," auto throttles come back on. Then "why?"

I just had a similar situation with an overbearing captain on a 4 day. Every day was "do this, do that.". Finally, going into our last day, in the van, I asked him to only speak up if he felt I was being unsafe. I try my damnedest to fly standard. We were headed into a our last turn, and were left high. I had it at idle. "It's okay to use spoilers." I know, but I won't need to. If I come down much faster, I'll have to add a bunch of powerbto make the runway."

"Okay, if you're not stable by 1000, we're going around."

I was fully configured, spooled, everything set by 1000. After we landed, at the gate, shut down, pax off, I spoke up.

"Was I unsafe?"

"No."

"Was I outside of standards?"

"No. But that's not how I would have done it."

"Okay. Then you take the last leg home. I'm done."

Was a quiet ride home. And I'm okay with that. Point being, if it's allowed, within standard, and safe, STFU, relax, and let me fly the damn airplane. I get the feeling that there is a lot of piss poor pilots in the right seat at the regional level. So it immediately puts CAPTAINS on high alert. And that's good. But be a leader, not a micro manager. A lot of guys fly the airplane that has me scratching my head. As long as I feel safe, I keep quiet.

Well I will say that the d-bag level CAs were more so at the regional versus at a major. I think the large reason is like you already said, the regional is typically the first command. It's new. And also you have newer FOs and some have to be watched closely. So I think it ends up creating a paranoia of types.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Or the other situation I already wrote about which @Derg replied to as well, the OAK 151 radial at 14 DME is already built into our FMGC as a fix "D331N." The CA just wouldn't accept it even though to display to him, I put OAK/151/14 in there as well and they both fell on top of each other. It *IS* the same fix.

He countered with "would you do this with a fed on the jumpseat?"

I said yes.

But he wasn't comfortable, and I could tell, so I just erased my D331N and just went with the PBD01 of OAK/151/14.

Just know that if you are a CA and you are doing this, your FO is losing faith in you.

 

[Hacker15e]

Point being, if it's allowed, within standard, and safe, STFU, relax, and let me fly the damn airplane.

Don't take this the wrong way, but this all sounds pretty funny coming from a guy who was hired into the regionals with sub-300 hours, and moved on to VA with zero jet PIC time.

That is a lot of hardcore ranting about the behaviors of guys who are in a position of responsibility that you literally have never been in.

Your feelings about safe/standard/legal are all entirely valid, but regarding the "STFU, relax, and let me fly", when it is your name on the release and your pink butt in the other seat, my bet is that you'll have a slightly different take on things.

 

[milleR]

Don't take this the wrong way, but this all sounds pretty funny coming from a guy who was hired into the regionals with sub-300 hours, and moved on to VA with zero jet PIC time.

That is a lot of hardcore ranting about the behaviors of guys who are in a position of responsibility that you literally have never been in.

Your feelings about safe/standard/legal are all entirely valid, but regarding the "STFU, relax, and let me fly", when it is your name on the release and your pink butt in the other seat, my bet is that you'll have a slightly different take on things.

I think you have mshunter and cherokee_cruiser mixed up.

 

[Hacker15e]

I think you have mshunter and cherokee_cruiser mixed up.

Ahh, F. You're right. Reading is fundamental, and I failed.

@mshunter and @Cherokee_Cruiser, disregard my retarded comments above, apologies.

 

[mshunter]

Don't take this the wrong way, but this all sounds pretty funny coming from a guy who was hired into the regionals with sub-300 hours, and moved on to VA with zero jet PIC time.

That is a lot of hardcore ranting about the behaviors of guys who are in a position of responsibility that you literally have never been in.

Your feelings about safe/standard/legal are all entirely valid, but regarding the "STFU, relax, and let me fly", when it is your name on the release and your pink butt in the other seat, my bet is that you'll have a slightly different take on things.

Uhh, what?

Edit: Never mind. Saw the rest of it.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Your feelings about safe/standard/legal are all entirely valid, but regarding the "STFU, relax, and let me fly", when it is your name on the release and your pink butt in the other seat, my bet is that you'll have a slightly different take on things.

Regardless of your mistaken identity, this is still valid. It's the captain's ship. Respect that.

 

[mshunter]

Regardless of your mistaken identity, this is still valid. It's the captain's ship. Respect that.

Yup. And he's been given the exact same guidance that I have as to how to operate. These types of conflicts arise with less than 5% of captains. That's something to consider.

 

[ctab5060X]

I'm kind of late to the party here. But if it's previously briefed, "sure," auto throttles come back on. Then "why?"

I just had a similar situation with an overbearing captain on a 4 day. Every day was "do this, do that.". Finally, going into our last day, in the van, I asked him to only speak up if he felt I was being unsafe. I try my damnedest to fly standard. We were headed into a our last turn, and were left high. I had it at idle. "It's okay to use spoilers." I know, but I won't need to. If I come down much faster, I'll have to add a bunch of powerbto make the runway."

"Okay, if you're not stable by 1000, we're going around."

I was fully configured, spooled, everything set by 1000. After we landed, at the gate, shut down, pax off, I spoke up.

"Was I unsafe?"

"No."

"Was I outside of standards?"

"No. But that's not how I would have done it."

"Okay. Then you take the last leg home. I'm done."

Was a quiet ride home. And I'm okay with that. Point being, if it's allowed, within standard, and safe, STFU, relax, and let me fly the damn airplane. I get the feeling that there is a lot of piss poor pilots in the right seat at the regional level. So it immediately puts CAPTAINS on high alert. And that's good. But be a leader, not a micro manager. A lot of guys fly the airplane that has me scratching my head. As long as I feel safe, I keep quiet.

Instead of basically slamming the door in your captain's face, how about instead creating a dialogue where both crewmembers can become comfortable communicating with each other. Seems to me, how you handled the situation completely removed one of the biggest elements of mitigating threats and errors... Communication.

Rather than leading with "Was I unsafe/outside of standards?", perhaps simply explain what was going on in your head at the time: i.e. x FPM on the VSI with y miles to go and didn't want to carry a lot of power by coming down too fast too soon. Point is... don't remove a major barrier to threats and errors because you feel he needs to "STFU, relax, and let me fly the damn airplane".

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Oh I respect the CA ship, which is why I modified the thing that was causing the issue (despite being a correct thing anyway).


Even if that post was meant for me, I get what you are saying. However I'm no longer that low time guy. I get their responsibility and what the signature means.

But please don't use industry stagnation as a put-down to say I moved to where I did with 0 TPIC. I applied literally everywhere that had the word "air" in it and some of them might have been heating/cooling companies. Point is, if I was at my regional today I'd be a 9 yr FO still with no upgrade. There are also 0 TPIC pilots at Delta and United.

As a CA if you don't want the AT off, then say something when the FO briefs it off. That's just good CRM. Also, if you are a CA and don't know the FMGC definition of radial/DME of What D331N means, then don't make it sound like what the FO is doing is illegal. Just because you have a lack of knowledge doesn't make it right.

 

[mshunter]

Instead of basically slamming the door in your captain's face, how about instead creating a dialogue where both crewmembers can become comfortable communicating with each other. Seems to me, how you handled the situation completely removed one of the biggest elements of mitigating threats and errors... Communication.

Rather than leading with "Was I unsafe/outside of standards?", perhaps simply explain what was going on in your head at the time: i.e. x FPM on the VSI with y miles to go and didn't want to carry a lot of power by coming down too fast too soon. Point is... don't remove a major barrier to threats and errors because you feel he needs to "STFU, relax, and let me fly the damn airplane".

Pretty much thought that was what I did when I told him I was trying to avoid adding a crap ton of power to get to the runway, while we were flying. And that's also why I waited till we were on the ground to speak up any further. We are a crew, and need to act accordingly. The worst thing a captain can do is speak down to his FO. That will create a very negative environment up front of an FO afraid to speak up when he sees it going to hell. The captain is not the boss, he's the leader. There is a HUGE difference.

 

[derg]

Not if you don't pay attention to settings when AT is always on. I've seen it and it's pretty sad. Like I said, a guy who doesn't feel comfortable with the AT off at 12k on an idle approach and descend profile probably isn't aware of what power setting holds what with AT off. Just IMO

Sure.

I just put it where the plane wants it. Easy peasy.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Sure.

I just put it where the plane wants it. Easy peasy.

Will you please stop using common sense? Why are you being so rational.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

The captain is not the boss,

Actually, he is.