Delta TA
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
Working on it. Have to retake ASEL written, get instrument proficient again, and finish up commercial maneuvers.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
Good 8)H46Bubba said:
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
How old are you Howard, are we the same age?
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
38. You're just a tad closer to decrepity than I!
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Thanks!
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
Man, over on the other site that we do not name; there are like 400 different threads about the TA! I don't know how you can moderate that zoo @PeanuckleCRJ!
Not sure if this has been posted:
Council 20 DTW
Special TA Update
June 11, 2015
This update is being redistributed due to formatting issue with the original document.
A PDF is also attached as a viewing option.
Special MEC Meeting June 9-11, 2015
The MEC met in special session in Atlanta on June 9th-11, 2015, to discuss the Tentative Agreement reached between the Company and ALPA. The MEC decided, on an 11 to 8 vote, to submit the agreement to the pilot group for membership ratification (MEMRAT).
The agreement reached will be fully briefed to the pilot group in the coming weeks. While the agreement does provide for pay rates above the American Airlines pilots’ rates by January 1, 2016 (our current agreement’s amendable date), it does so by exchanging up to 5.74% (as valued) in profit sharing in 2016 and beyond (by moving the profit sharing “trigger” from $2B to $6B – discussed further in a later update).
While there were several improvements in secondary areas of the PWA, the magnitude of the PS trade for the pay rates achieved, the changes to sick leave verification and its retroactivity, some of the SCOPE changes, and some changes that could be considered individually concessionary, negatively affected our view of the total package, and are why we voted against the TA resolution.
The TA Resolution was as follows:
"Whereas the Delta MEC Negotiating Committee reached a tentative agreement with the Company for Contract 2015 on June 04, 2014, and
Whereas the Delta MEC has determined that the membership is entitled to vote on the ratification of this tentative agreement,
Therefore be it resolved that the Delta MEC approves submitting this tentative agreement reached with Delta Air Lines for membership ratification.
This resolution passed 11-8. The vote breakdown is as follows:
For:
LAX (2), ATL (4), Instructors (1), SEA (F/O), SLC (2) & CVG (CA)
Against:
MSP (2), DTW (2), SEA (CA), NYC (2), & CVG (F/O)
The first Negotiators’ Notepad from last night contained a small but significant deviation from the actual resolution. This resolution did not give the TA the “approval of the MEC”, but rather simply approved it to be submitted for MEMRAT. This was a specific point of formal and informal discussion prior to the vote. Note that we were voting against the TA for being inadequate, not against allowing MEMRAT in general.
The MEC passed a resolution today agreeing to reduce the ratification period from 60 to 30 days. Rich voted against this change. The ratification vote will open on Wednesday, June 24th and close on Friday, July 10th.
There will be a whirlwind of information coming your way in the immediate future from the Negotiating Committee and the MEC, most likely via a high speed, high volume, and aggressive communications effort, including road shows and Delta Pilot Network (DPN) volunteers in the crew lounges.
The presentations will include items in BIG PRINT and colorful text & graphs, but the fine print is just as important, if not more so.
You may or may not find the communications efforts and messaging helpful in making your decision, but whatever the case may be, please stay tuned and, please, read the details of the agreement CAREFULLY, and please exercise due diligence in evaluating the TA.
Council 20 will be producing a detailed perspective, including more specifics about the TA and the rationale for our vote in the near future.
Bill, Rich, and Tom
Council 20 DTW
Special TA Update
June 11, 2015
This update is being redistributed due to formatting issue with the original document.
A PDF is also attached as a viewing option.
Special MEC Meeting June 9-11, 2015
The MEC met in special session in Atlanta on June 9th-11, 2015, to discuss the Tentative Agreement reached between the Company and ALPA. The MEC decided, on an 11 to 8 vote, to submit the agreement to the pilot group for membership ratification (MEMRAT).
The agreement reached will be fully briefed to the pilot group in the coming weeks. While the agreement does provide for pay rates above the American Airlines pilots’ rates by January 1, 2016 (our current agreement’s amendable date), it does so by exchanging up to 5.74% (as valued) in profit sharing in 2016 and beyond (by moving the profit sharing “trigger” from $2B to $6B – discussed further in a later update).
While there were several improvements in secondary areas of the PWA, the magnitude of the PS trade for the pay rates achieved, the changes to sick leave verification and its retroactivity, some of the SCOPE changes, and some changes that could be considered individually concessionary, negatively affected our view of the total package, and are why we voted against the TA resolution.
The TA Resolution was as follows:
"Whereas the Delta MEC Negotiating Committee reached a tentative agreement with the Company for Contract 2015 on June 04, 2014, and
Whereas the Delta MEC has determined that the membership is entitled to vote on the ratification of this tentative agreement,
Therefore be it resolved that the Delta MEC approves submitting this tentative agreement reached with Delta Air Lines for membership ratification.
This resolution passed 11-8. The vote breakdown is as follows:
For:
LAX (2), ATL (4), Instructors (1), SEA (F/O), SLC (2) & CVG (CA)
Against:
MSP (2), DTW (2), SEA (CA), NYC (2), & CVG (F/O)
The first Negotiators’ Notepad from last night contained a small but significant deviation from the actual resolution. This resolution did not give the TA the “approval of the MEC”, but rather simply approved it to be submitted for MEMRAT. This was a specific point of formal and informal discussion prior to the vote. Note that we were voting against the TA for being inadequate, not against allowing MEMRAT in general.
The MEC passed a resolution today agreeing to reduce the ratification period from 60 to 30 days. Rich voted against this change. The ratification vote will open on Wednesday, June 24th and close on Friday, July 10th.
There will be a whirlwind of information coming your way in the immediate future from the Negotiating Committee and the MEC, most likely via a high speed, high volume, and aggressive communications effort, including road shows and Delta Pilot Network (DPN) volunteers in the crew lounges.
The presentations will include items in BIG PRINT and colorful text & graphs, but the fine print is just as important, if not more so.
You may or may not find the communications efforts and messaging helpful in making your decision, but whatever the case may be, please stay tuned and, please, read the details of the agreement CAREFULLY, and please exercise due diligence in evaluating the TA.
Council 20 will be producing a detailed perspective, including more specifics about the TA and the rationale for our vote in the near future.
Bill, Rich, and Tom
Hilariously, the real action is on the umpty-ump million Facebook groups that sprung up.
89-LX
Well-Known Member
Walking past the DTW crew room today to get to where I needed to go, all I heard was people discussing the TA and the cons of it (from what I heard for a few seconds). Never seen the crew room that busy before, but then again, I only pass it every so often as I don't work for Delta.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Detroit, always where the troublemakers hang out. I can say this, because I was one of them at Pinnacle. 
I've got a ton of respect for Bill, so if he voted against it, I'm sure there are valid reasons to be unhappy with it.
I've got a ton of respect for Bill, so if he voted against it, I'm sure there are valid reasons to be unhappy with it.
Council 66 Chairman:
Contract 2015 Chairman’s Update #1
Fellow pilots of Council 66,
The MEC voted on the TA in open session yesterday in Atlanta. As you may know by now, the result of the TA vote was 11 for and 8 against. Both NYC reps voted against the TA. It will now proceed to membership ratification, where you will be the final arbiters. More on that soon.
Below is a transcript of the speech that I made to the MEC yesterday during open session. This will provide you a brief look at my reasoning for voting “No.” I recognize that there is a thirst for information, and we will follow up very shortly with more background for you. In addition to information from your reps, you can count on the Delta MEC administration to provide you with a wealth of information at https://dal.alpa.org. As always, feel free to reach out to me, Chris, or Dave, with your thoughts and concerns.
“Ladies and gentlemen, members of the MEC, and MEC administration,
“I would like to thank the negotiators, the MEC administration, the attorneys, subject-matter experts, and everyone involved in the effort put forth thus far in crafting the TA before us.
“Never in the last 42 years that I have been piloting commercial aircraft have I witnessed a greater spread between the economic climate in which we found ourselves and the resulting agreement. And, that most certainly includes our pre- and post-bankruptcy concessionary contracts.
“We are highly skilled, mission-oriented pilots. We are, in my estimation and the company’s as well, the finest pilots on the planet. Our hard work should be rewarding us, not demanding that we be granting the company relief. We have before us the best negotiating environment in our careers; multiple record-breaking profits; incredibly high load factors. The timing is right for an historic contract. We raised expectations, sure, in our opener and in our communications—are we guilty of over-promising and under-delivering? I’ll leave that up to you to decide.
“The pilots of Delta Air Lines have spoken loudly to us—in crew lounges, at meetings,
in multiple surveys and out flying the line. These pilots have given greatly to save this airline, and they have told us loud and clear that now is the time for payback.
“But perhaps we are missing the point.
“This agreement isn’t about money or scope or sick leave. This agreement is about respect. Respect from the company and self-respect for ourselves. Agreeing to this TA means we accept the notion that management has little respect for our past sacrifices and the professional job we do day in and day out. Agreeing to this TA means we have lost our own
self-respect for our skills and dedication. We will chase a pay rate, and abandon benefits and quality of life, just to get to that shiny number. And frankly, the pay rate ain’t all that shiny.
“Look closely at this agreement. The devil is in the details.
“With great thanks for all those involved in its crafting, my belief is that accepting a TA that is marginal at best will haunt us for years to come. It’s time we stopped bluffing. Management has overreached, and we must not validate their overreach. In good faith to both the pilots I represent and all the pilots of Delta Air Lines, I must vote ‘No’ on this TA.
“I vowed to follow a clear process from the start. In keeping with that promise, I can’t accept a TA that clearly does not meet the mandate of this pilot group. The pilots’ mandate and the direction given to the negotiators never included making drastic sacrifices to important sections of our contract during such prosperous times.
“For those around the horseshoe who want to reject it but plan to pass it along to the pilots to ‘let them decide,’ I ask, ‘What purpose do you serve? Why have an MEC?’
“This body’s credibility is at stake every time we forward a TA to our fellow pilots. We are the first arbiters after the negotiators and must not abdicate our solemn duty.
“This TA should sell itself, and common sense says it cannot. It under-delivers. It would take a full court press, with a very slim chance of getting this thing across the finish line. It shouldn’t be so. It must not be so.
“Thank you for the privilege of addressing you.” Respectfully,
Tom
Tom Brielmann
Chairman
Council 66 Capt. Rep
Contract 2015 Chairman’s Update #1
Fellow pilots of Council 66,
The MEC voted on the TA in open session yesterday in Atlanta. As you may know by now, the result of the TA vote was 11 for and 8 against. Both NYC reps voted against the TA. It will now proceed to membership ratification, where you will be the final arbiters. More on that soon.
Below is a transcript of the speech that I made to the MEC yesterday during open session. This will provide you a brief look at my reasoning for voting “No.” I recognize that there is a thirst for information, and we will follow up very shortly with more background for you. In addition to information from your reps, you can count on the Delta MEC administration to provide you with a wealth of information at https://dal.alpa.org. As always, feel free to reach out to me, Chris, or Dave, with your thoughts and concerns.
“Ladies and gentlemen, members of the MEC, and MEC administration,
“I would like to thank the negotiators, the MEC administration, the attorneys, subject-matter experts, and everyone involved in the effort put forth thus far in crafting the TA before us.
“Never in the last 42 years that I have been piloting commercial aircraft have I witnessed a greater spread between the economic climate in which we found ourselves and the resulting agreement. And, that most certainly includes our pre- and post-bankruptcy concessionary contracts.
“We are highly skilled, mission-oriented pilots. We are, in my estimation and the company’s as well, the finest pilots on the planet. Our hard work should be rewarding us, not demanding that we be granting the company relief. We have before us the best negotiating environment in our careers; multiple record-breaking profits; incredibly high load factors. The timing is right for an historic contract. We raised expectations, sure, in our opener and in our communications—are we guilty of over-promising and under-delivering? I’ll leave that up to you to decide.
“The pilots of Delta Air Lines have spoken loudly to us—in crew lounges, at meetings,
in multiple surveys and out flying the line. These pilots have given greatly to save this airline, and they have told us loud and clear that now is the time for payback.
“But perhaps we are missing the point.
“This agreement isn’t about money or scope or sick leave. This agreement is about respect. Respect from the company and self-respect for ourselves. Agreeing to this TA means we accept the notion that management has little respect for our past sacrifices and the professional job we do day in and day out. Agreeing to this TA means we have lost our own
self-respect for our skills and dedication. We will chase a pay rate, and abandon benefits and quality of life, just to get to that shiny number. And frankly, the pay rate ain’t all that shiny.
“Look closely at this agreement. The devil is in the details.
“With great thanks for all those involved in its crafting, my belief is that accepting a TA that is marginal at best will haunt us for years to come. It’s time we stopped bluffing. Management has overreached, and we must not validate their overreach. In good faith to both the pilots I represent and all the pilots of Delta Air Lines, I must vote ‘No’ on this TA.
“I vowed to follow a clear process from the start. In keeping with that promise, I can’t accept a TA that clearly does not meet the mandate of this pilot group. The pilots’ mandate and the direction given to the negotiators never included making drastic sacrifices to important sections of our contract during such prosperous times.
“For those around the horseshoe who want to reject it but plan to pass it along to the pilots to ‘let them decide,’ I ask, ‘What purpose do you serve? Why have an MEC?’
“This body’s credibility is at stake every time we forward a TA to our fellow pilots. We are the first arbiters after the negotiators and must not abdicate our solemn duty.
“This TA should sell itself, and common sense says it cannot. It under-delivers. It would take a full court press, with a very slim chance of getting this thing across the finish line. It shouldn’t be so. It must not be so.
“Thank you for the privilege of addressing you.” Respectfully,
Tom
Tom Brielmann
Chairman
Council 66 Capt. Rep
66 Vice Chairman:
Fellow council pilots,
Yesterday, the MEC voted on a resolution to approve sending the Tentative Agreement to the pilots for member ratification. The vote passed 11–8. I voted “No” on the resolution. To be clear, I am not against giving the pilots of New York the final vote on this, or any, TA. But I will try to outline the reasons that I voted not to send out the agreement at this stage.
A little less than three months ago, Delta management came to us looking to engage early in our contract talks. The MEC had formulated our opener with the amalgamation of many sources: the contract survey, subject-matter experts, industry and government officials, and e-mail, text, and direct contact with the pilots in the lounge. (I have tried to get back to everyone, sorry if I missed you.)
Negotiations progressed at a record pace, and the entire MEC worked diligently to debate the issues and direct our negotiators. In the end, the negotiators are just interpreters. They helped us formulate and articulate our positions to the company. And in turn, they also explained where the company was on all the issues.
About a week ago the negotiators reached a point where it was felt that the company had offered their last and best offer at that time. The majority of the MEC felt that allowing the negotiators to make this last offer into a Tentative Agreement would yield the maximum results at that stage.
The MEC had the actual language of the TA for seven days as prescribed by the DALPA Policy Manual. I used that time to pore over the details and ask questions to the negotiators and other representatives. I was familiar with all of the issues we had discussed. But the details of this agreement are important, no matter what the outcome.
The question for me came down to weighing two options: either take the certain, but substandard deal before us or forge a path of continued negotiations.
I have serious misgivings about this TA. There are elements in work rules, retirement, disability, and pay that I feel fall short. The agreement converts some of our profit sharing into pay rates, and even those rates are less than what I felt was in a zone of reasonableness.
I also believe there was an alternative. The process allowed for us to pass on this deal and use all the resources we have assembled to readdress the issues in play. We would reengage the company and fix the agreement. I believe that the negotiating environment still compels the company to meet and hear the concerns of their most important strategic business partner— us. In the end, my view was not in the majority on the MEC, and it was passed on to the membership for a vote.
I will put together a more comprehensive personal analysis of the TA. As I have promised all
through the talks, I will try to explain and illustrate all the pros and cons as comprehensively as possible.
There will be plenty of ALPA publications and presence in the lounges in the next few weeks. I remain committed to being as accessible as possible. I ask that you take the time to read and absorb as much of the material that is put out as you can. Ask questions and make an informed decision.
Fly safe, Chris
Chris Hazleton
Vice Chairman
Council 66 F/O Rep
Fellow council pilots,
Yesterday, the MEC voted on a resolution to approve sending the Tentative Agreement to the pilots for member ratification. The vote passed 11–8. I voted “No” on the resolution. To be clear, I am not against giving the pilots of New York the final vote on this, or any, TA. But I will try to outline the reasons that I voted not to send out the agreement at this stage.
A little less than three months ago, Delta management came to us looking to engage early in our contract talks. The MEC had formulated our opener with the amalgamation of many sources: the contract survey, subject-matter experts, industry and government officials, and e-mail, text, and direct contact with the pilots in the lounge. (I have tried to get back to everyone, sorry if I missed you.)
Negotiations progressed at a record pace, and the entire MEC worked diligently to debate the issues and direct our negotiators. In the end, the negotiators are just interpreters. They helped us formulate and articulate our positions to the company. And in turn, they also explained where the company was on all the issues.
About a week ago the negotiators reached a point where it was felt that the company had offered their last and best offer at that time. The majority of the MEC felt that allowing the negotiators to make this last offer into a Tentative Agreement would yield the maximum results at that stage.
The MEC had the actual language of the TA for seven days as prescribed by the DALPA Policy Manual. I used that time to pore over the details and ask questions to the negotiators and other representatives. I was familiar with all of the issues we had discussed. But the details of this agreement are important, no matter what the outcome.
The question for me came down to weighing two options: either take the certain, but substandard deal before us or forge a path of continued negotiations.
I have serious misgivings about this TA. There are elements in work rules, retirement, disability, and pay that I feel fall short. The agreement converts some of our profit sharing into pay rates, and even those rates are less than what I felt was in a zone of reasonableness.
I also believe there was an alternative. The process allowed for us to pass on this deal and use all the resources we have assembled to readdress the issues in play. We would reengage the company and fix the agreement. I believe that the negotiating environment still compels the company to meet and hear the concerns of their most important strategic business partner— us. In the end, my view was not in the majority on the MEC, and it was passed on to the membership for a vote.
I will put together a more comprehensive personal analysis of the TA. As I have promised all
through the talks, I will try to explain and illustrate all the pros and cons as comprehensively as possible.
There will be plenty of ALPA publications and presence in the lounges in the next few weeks. I remain committed to being as accessible as possible. I ask that you take the time to read and absorb as much of the material that is put out as you can. Ask questions and make an informed decision.
Fly safe, Chris
Chris Hazleton
Vice Chairman
Council 66 F/O Rep
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The problem with sick leave is that the NMB is very sympathetic nowadays to managements who want tighter controls on it. ALPA has lost arbitrations trying to fight sick leave policies unilaterally imposed by managements, and a result, a more draconian "industry standard" is in place that the Board uses as the benchmark. I hope you're successful in improving it, but I have doubts unless something is traded for it.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
What us with the sick leave? Doc slip for all? Does it have to say issue or just that doc says you came in? HIPAA on the issue side.
ian
Well-Known Member
why is this being brought up so much:
1. E. 9.
9. Except as approved by the Delta MEC Chairman, or as otherwise provided by Section 1 E., a carrier engaged in international partner flying will maintain a separate operating and corporate identity from the Company including, but not limited to, name, trade name, logo, livery, trademarks or service marks. The Delta MEC Chairman may, at his option, approve the use by a carrier engaged in international partner flying of a trade name, brand, logo, trademarks, service marks, aircraft livery or aircraft paint scheme currently or in the future utilized by the Company or any Company affiliate.
1. E. 9.
9. Except as approved by the Delta MEC Chairman, or as otherwise provided by Section 1 E., a carrier engaged in international partner flying will maintain a separate operating and corporate identity from the Company including, but not limited to, name, trade name, logo, livery, trademarks or service marks. The Delta MEC Chairman may, at his option, approve the use by a carrier engaged in international partner flying of a trade name, brand, logo, trademarks, service marks, aircraft livery or aircraft paint scheme currently or in the future utilized by the Company or any Company affiliate.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Because it basically allows one dude to decide whether another company is permitted to use the Delta branding. I would imagine that the North guys would be flipping out about this. Putting that much power into the hands of the Master Chairman just isn't how they did business.