Delta TA

ATN_Pilot said:
Because it basically allows one dude to decide whether another company is permitted to use the Delta branding. I would imagine that the North guys would be flipping out about this. Putting that much power into the hands of the Master Chairman just isn't how they did business.
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as a big time ALPA guy what's your take on it? and @Seggy ?
 
ian said:
as a big time ALPA guy what's your take on it? and @Seggy ?
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It's about what I would expect from DALPA South. They've always had a culture on their MEC more accepting of power in the hands of a few, especially the Chairman. For example, DALPA always had the MEC Chairman select his own committee members. The voting members of the MEC had no say. And they always seemed okay with that.

By contrast, the North guys always took more of a representative republic view of things with very little power in the hands of the executives. The voting members of the MEC made all the big decisions by formal vote.

My ALPA "upbringing" was in the Northwest culture, so I lean towards that way of thinking. I wrote the MEC Policy Manual at AirTran, and it was based on the Northwest manual. We never would have allowed a Master Chairman that much authority. That's not to say that it's "wrong," per se, if that's what the pilot group is okay with. But I personally would never feel comfortable with it.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
What us with the sick leave? Doc slip for all? Does it have to say issue or just that doc says you came in? HIPAA on the issue side.
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After 15 sick days all further sick days have to be verified with a doctor's note. Ill look at the language when I get a chance to answer your other question
 
Trip7 said:
After 15 sick days all further sick days have to be verified with a doctor's note. Ill look at the language when I get a chance to answer your other question
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Don't forget the "lookback" at the date of signing.

We've got an aging pilot group. I've got a whole new perspective in my 40's that I didn't have in my early 20's in the airline business when it comes to "cubicle sick" and "cockpit sick" because they're entirely different things.
 
Trip7 said:
After 15 sick days all further sick days have to be verified with a doctor's note. Ill look at the language when I get a chance to answer your other question
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At my previous (ALPA!) airline, it was considered good practice to obtain a doctor's note when you were sick for ANY length of time on your probationary year.

I raised an eyebrow when I got the HI6 (I think) message that said "Please call the DFW CPO re: your recent sick call." (It was my first and last one during my short tenure there.)

At my current airline, (I'm told) nobody really cares until you start hitting something like 11-12 days of total missed work, including SAD/NFF, Emergency, and Sick, in a rolling 12 month block. (I don't know what happens next, but with as hard as I've been scheduled, I might get to find out.) Even then, there is considerable latitude granted - it's largely assumed here that you're not abusing your right to determine your fitness for duty.

Derg said:
Don't forget the "lookback" at the date of signing.

We've got an aging pilot group. I've got a whole new perspective in my 40's that I didn't have in my early 20's in the airline business when it comes to "cubicle sick" and "cockpit sick" because they're entirely different things.
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My SO goes into work unless she's on her deathbed (she had a nasty migraine, and wound up coming home a few days back, but still showed up in the morning to do the 'absolutely must happen meetings'), whereas I am loathe to go to work if I have anything more severe than the sniffles. Cubicle sick and cockpit sick are way different things indeed; things that are minor annoyances at ground level are major annoyances/distractions above ground level.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
At my previous (ALPA!) airline, it was considered good practice to obtain a doctor's note when you were sick for ANY length of time on your probationary year.

I raised an eyebrow when I got the HI6 (I think) message that said "Please call the DFW CPO re: your recent sick call." (It was my first and last one during my short tenure there.)

At my current airline, (I'm told) nobody really cares until you start hitting something like 11-12 days of total missed work, including SAD/NFF, Emergency, and Sick, in a rolling 12 month block. (I don't know what happens next, but with as hard as I've been scheduled, I might get to find out.) Even then, there is considerable latitude granted - it's largely assumed here that you're not abusing your right to determine your fitness for duty.


My SO goes into work unless she's on her deathbed (she had a nasty migraine, and wound up coming home a few days back, but still showed up in the morning to do the 'absolutely must happen meetings'), whereas I am loathe to go to work if I have anything more severe than the sniffles. Cubicle sick and cockpit sick are way different things indeed; things that are minor annoyances at ground level are major annoyances/distractions above ground level.
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Don't be shy. In the mid-20's myself (I think I was at 26 and now I'm at 24). I don't know the exact and don't care enough to look it up. I strive to be above average though ;).

Haven't heard a word. Although, there were some extenuating circumstances, and just about everyone "important" knew what was going on. Probably why I haven't heard anything.
 
ian said:
why is this being brought up so much:
1. E. 9.

9. Except as approved by the Delta MEC Chairman, or as otherwise provided by Section 1 E., a carrier engaged in international partner flying will maintain a separate operating and corporate identity from the Company including, but not limited to, name, trade name, logo, livery, trademarks or service marks. The Delta MEC Chairman may, at his option, approve the use by a carrier engaged in international partner flying of a trade name, brand, logo, trademarks, service marks, aircraft livery or aircraft paint scheme currently or in the future utilized by the Company or any Company affiliate.
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ATN_Pilot said:
Because it basically allows one dude to decide whether another company is permitted to use the Delta branding. I would imagine that the North guys would be flipping out about this. Putting that much power into the hands of the Master Chairman just isn't how they did business.
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ian said:
as a big time ALPA guy what's your take on it? and @Seggy ?
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ATN_Pilot said:
It's about what I would expect from DALPA South. They've always had a culture on their MEC more accepting of power in the hands of a few, especially the Chairman. For example, DALPA always had the MEC Chairman select his own committee members. The voting members of the MEC had no say. And they always seemed okay with that.

By contrast, the North guys always took more of a representative republic view of things with very little power in the hands of the executives. The voting members of the MEC made all the big decisions by formal vote.

My ALPA "upbringing" was in the Northwest culture, so I lean towards that way of thinking. I wrote the MEC Policy Manual at AirTran, and it was based on the Northwest manual. We never would have allowed a Master Chairman that much authority. That's not to say that it's "wrong," per se, if that's what the pilot group is okay with. But I personally would never feel comfortable with it.
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Another take on that specific language is maybe in needs to lie in the MEC Chair as he has a seat on the BOD and he has signed BOD non-disclosure agreements (the rest of the MEC hasn't) that he may only be privy to information that needs approval for that provision.

With that said, I agree with the L-NWA way of handling things, BUT, there may be more to that provision. Once again, I don't know, but there may be another take on it.

I have the utmost respect for the Council 20 Captain Rep (I also heard the FO Rep is a good guy) and the Delta guys should be really happy he is sitting at the table.
 
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Seggy said:
Another take on that specific language is maybe in needs to lie in the MEC Chair as he has a seat on the BOD and he has signed BOD non-disclosure agreements (the rest of the MEC hasn't) that he may only be privy to information that needs approval for that provision.
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The DALPA MEC chair does not sit on the BOD. The pilot director, which is an elected position by the MEC, is the pilot rep on the board.
 
Seggy said:
Another take on that specific language is maybe in needs to lie in the MEC Chair as he has a seat on the BOD and he has signed BOD non-disclosure agreements (the rest of the MEC hasn't) that he may only be privy to information that needs approval for that provision.
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Yeah, something else we wouldn't put up with. :) AirTran management tried to get us to agree to just having the officers under NDA, because they didn't trust the status reps. And while I perfectly understand why they didn't trust status reps, we just couldn't agree to that. The people elected by the pilots have to have the information needed to make decisions.
 
Derg said:
Not sure if this has been posted:

Council 20 DTW

Special TA Update

June 11, 2015


This update is being redistributed due to formatting issue with the original document.

A PDF is also attached as a viewing option.



Special MEC Meeting June 9-11, 2015

The MEC met in special session in Atlanta on June 9th-11, 2015, to discuss the Tentative Agreement reached between the Company and ALPA. The MEC decided, on an 11 to 8 vote, to submit the agreement to the pilot group for membership ratification (MEMRAT).


The agreement reached will be fully briefed to the pilot group in the coming weeks. While the agreement does provide for pay rates above the American Airlines pilots’ rates by January 1, 2016 (our current agreement’s amendable date), it does so by exchanging up to 5.74% (as valued) in profit sharing in 2016 and beyond (by moving the profit sharing “trigger” from $2B to $6B – discussed further in a later update).


While there were several improvements in secondary areas of the PWA, the magnitude of the PS trade for the pay rates achieved, the changes to sick leave verification and its retroactivity, some of the SCOPE changes, and some changes that could be considered individually concessionary, negatively affected our view of the total package, and are why we voted against the TA resolution.


The TA Resolution was as follows:

"Whereas the Delta MEC Negotiating Committee reached a tentative agreement with the Company for Contract 2015 on June 04, 2014, and


Whereas the Delta MEC has determined that the membership is entitled to vote on the ratification of this tentative agreement,


Therefore be it resolved that the Delta MEC approves submitting this tentative agreement reached with Delta Air Lines for membership ratification.


This resolution passed 11-8. The vote breakdown is as follows:

For:

LAX (2), ATL (4), Instructors (1), SEA (F/O), SLC (2) & CVG (CA)

Against:

MSP (2), DTW (2), SEA (CA), NYC (2), & CVG (F/O)


The first Negotiators’ Notepad from last night contained a small but significant deviation from the actual resolution. This resolution did not give the TA the “approval of the MEC”, but rather simply approved it to be submitted for MEMRAT. This was a specific point of formal and informal discussion prior to the vote. Note that we were voting against the TA for being inadequate, not against allowing MEMRAT in general.


The MEC passed a resolution today agreeing to reduce the ratification period from 60 to 30 days. Rich voted against this change. The ratification vote will open on Wednesday, June 24th and close on Friday, July 10th.


There will be a whirlwind of information coming your way in the immediate future from the Negotiating Committee and the MEC, most likely via a high speed, high volume, and aggressive communications effort, including road shows and Delta Pilot Network (DPN) volunteers in the crew lounges.


The presentations will include items in BIG PRINT and colorful text & graphs, but the fine print is just as important, if not more so.


You may or may not find the communications efforts and messaging helpful in making your decision, but whatever the case may be, please stay tuned and, please, read the details of the agreement CAREFULLY, and please exercise due diligence in evaluating the TA.


Council 20 will be producing a detailed perspective, including more specifics about the TA and the rationale for our vote in the near future.


Bill, Rich, and Tom
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Why in the world would they want to rush this from 60-30 days? Sounds sketchy.
 
Cptnchia said:
The DALPA MEC chair does not sit on the BOD. The pilot director, which is an elected position by the MEC, is the pilot rep on the board.
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Thank you for answering that and correcting my assumption.

Then yes, I would be asking why that language was in there during the road shows.

ATN_Pilot said:
Yeah, something else we wouldn't put up with. :) AirTran management tried to get us to agree to just having the officers under NDA, because they didn't trust the status reps. And while I perfectly understand why they didn't trust status reps, we just couldn't agree to that. The people elected by the pilots have to have the information needed to make decisions.
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All of our LEC Reps as well as a few of our committee members have signed the corporate non-disclosure agreement. The understanding is that if they leak info though, they are going to need to deal with some very highly paid lawyers as well as SEC enforcement folks. I was just trying to give the Delta MEC Negotiators the benefit of the doubt as I know things are done differently there...
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Why in the world would they want to rush this from 60-30 days? Sounds sketchy.
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To be quite frank, the CEO told us during In Command that he wanted a deal before mid-June.

And some want to give it to him at any cost, as you see.

We have a bad issue with people that may have been elected for a period of time that cycle back into leadership in various appointed positions that eat off the FPL/Flight Pay Loss for years that are able to avoid the test of re-election.

Those people create tribes, of sorts, and influence the elected reps toward their own internal interests, often conflicting with the wishes of the electorate and the council representatives that elect them.

That's our nasty secret. We have the same handful of people that play musical chairs and no matter who you elect to represent you, until we purge that collection of people, like (ahem) one MEC chair tried to do at his peril, we're going to be the "attractive girl with severe bipolar disorder".
 
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Derg said:
To be quite frank, the CEO told us during In Command that he wanted a deal before mid-June.

And some want to give it to him at any cost, as you see.

We have a bad issue with people that may have been elected for a period of time that cycle back into leadership in various appointed positions that eat off the FPL/Flight Pay Loss for years that are able to avoid the test of re-election.

Those people create tribes, of sorts, and influence the elected reps toward their own internal interests, often conflicting with the wishes of the electorate and the council representatives that elect them.

That's our nasty secret. We have the same handful of people that play musical chairs and no matter who you elect to represent you, until we purge that collection of people, like (ahem) one MEC chair tried to do at his peril, we're going to be the "attractive girl with severe bipolar disorder".
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i hope the no votes prevail on this one
 
ian said:
are they supposed to just give you the facts? or try to persuade you to vote their way? cuz that video seems like a please vote yes instead of what the facts are
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It's traditional.

We used to have an "Pro-Con" letter, but that was done away with years ago.

I hope it fails too, but the money says that any vote over 51% means the company negotiators "gave" too much.

Sadly, it's been "Rush Week" for the DPA drive and swiftly flatlined the esprit de corps right as the busy travel season begins.
 
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