ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I mean, I'd probably tell AAG to jam it if I were the Union at Horizon. Now is not the time for concessions, there is absolutely no need for it.
Horizon
- Thread starter ppragman
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I mean, I'd probably tell AAG to jam it if I were the Union at Horizon. Now is not the time for concessions, there is absolutely no need for it.
ElihuSmails
Well-Known Member
Wow! Sorry to hear all this guys. I just left the company back in January. Had lunch on Wednesday with a buddy from I went through training with at QX. He said things sounded hopeful around the company and even some of the typically grumpier CAs were even holding their heads up a little higher.
Thank goodness all the majors are hiring. Really hope you guys get on somewhere soon. I really feel for the 50+ year-old guys that have made their homes there while times were good. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end for QX.
Thank goodness all the majors are hiring. Really hope you guys get on somewhere soon. I really feel for the 50+ year-old guys that have made their homes there while times were good. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end for QX.
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
that seems to be the sentiment at QX. We offer zero incentive to come here (ie, no signing bonus/short upgrade/flow through/etc)...we can do the whole 'we have great pay rates!', 'we have HUD's/RNP/full paperless iPads', and 'people want to live in the PacNW!' All we want, but end of the day it doesn't matter.
Apparently record profits equates to 'we want more money'.
Time to cash out, and BRO DOWN!
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
And honestly, the rates aren't that great! (OH NO! I SAID IT!). AAG is getting a grand deal for you guys; the rates they're paying are a bargain for the value in terms of crews they're getting (and every Horizon and former Horizon guy I've ever met has been super solid with one notable exception, and F that guy, he was probably a dick while he was there too). I mean, honestly, a 10 year captain is making $81,000 on min guarantee. Even if he's making six-figures when you factor in per diem and the like, many of our medevac guys are making more than that here on first year pay. If your end game is to live in the PacNW or Alaska then yeah, Horizon could be a solid move, but if you are angling towards getting your time to go to a "retirement carrier," I can't see Horizon being the most direct, or even pleasant route. Hell, even if the upgrade drops to 3 years, third year FO pay is a lot less than what you could get doing other jobs in the industry that have you home more.
What a shame.
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
You literally could replace "Horizon" with "Envoy", and this statement would be 100% accurate.
Best of luck to the Horizon pilot group. I hope you do better than Envoy did in the battle against the parent company.
ElihuSmails
Well-Known Member
I chose QX simply because I had moved to Portland, I refuse to commute for a regional and they were the best fit compared to my other options in PDX at the time.
One thing I didn't realize, is that although the pay rates were the highest among regionals at the time, the total compensation wasn't all it was made out to be. Now that SW has raised first year pay to $30/hr, and I assume their bids and trip rigs allow you to get the hours in 30 days that took us 35 days. Flying a bunch of .5-.8 legs makes it hard to bank much. I was getting hours a lot faster at TSA, and probably making the same total compensation at $6/hr less for first year pay.
Don't hate on me for throwing the TSA thing out there. For people on the outside looking in, I'll say that QX was a great experience for the time that I was there. The flying was some of the best I've ever done and came with a lot of unique challenges you don't find on the Eastern half of the U.S. I enjoyed the job, but after this news, I wouldn't recommend it to people anymore unless your situation was like mine and you just happen to be here already.
One thing I didn't realize, is that although the pay rates were the highest among regionals at the time, the total compensation wasn't all it was made out to be. Now that SW has raised first year pay to $30/hr, and I assume their bids and trip rigs allow you to get the hours in 30 days that took us 35 days. Flying a bunch of .5-.8 legs makes it hard to bank much. I was getting hours a lot faster at TSA, and probably making the same total compensation at $6/hr less for first year pay.
Don't hate on me for throwing the TSA thing out there. For people on the outside looking in, I'll say that QX was a great experience for the time that I was there. The flying was some of the best I've ever done and came with a lot of unique challenges you don't find on the Eastern half of the U.S. I enjoyed the job, but after this news, I wouldn't recommend it to people anymore unless your situation was like mine and you just happen to be here already.
Soku39
Well-Known Member
Ah yes, Alaska Airlines group instead of American Airlines in this case.
learhawkerbe400
Well-Known Member
It sucks to hear you guys might lose planes. I'm sure there are lots of good people there and I empathize with your situation. However, this is exactly what has to happen to return flying to mainline. Obviously if they send these planes to another regional that sucks all around. But, if Alaska gets more flying because of it then it's overall a good thing. It's exactly what will happen all across the regionals in the next few years. Hardship at the regional level has to occur to bring those jobs back to higher-paying employers.
Hope it all works out for you guys.
Hope it all works out for you guys.
Dan208B
Well-Known Member
I just recently started at Alaska and this really frustrates me. They talk nonstop about how great things are going financially and how great AAG is doing but not a single word about Horizon, so we are left to assume things are good. I personally believe AAG has a really great deal owning Horizon and has an opportunity to use them to control their regional customer service much better than other airlines do. However in order to do this you have to treat those employees well and compensate them appropriately. I hope this works out, if we keep adding RJs to Alaska feed I would like to see them at QX. Of course nobody cares what a line pilot thinks.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
AMR ceased to exist on Dec. 9, 2013. With the merger completed, AMR went away and American Airlines Group (AAG) came into existence.
AAG can be both Alaska Air Group or American Airlines Group...
Confused yet?
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
Id really like to see mainline unions be more active in these situations. The race to the bottom doesn't affect them directly, but the cheaper regional feed is the more viable growth at the regional level becomes.
I think a lot of this is going to come down to exactly what Alaska wants us to take concessions on, and what the plan is for the 15 airplanes we lose around 2017.
If they ask for concessions on our current turbojet pay rate, but leave the prop rates and our benefits alone, there's a decent chance it would pass a vote with the pilot group, especially with the "reverse SJS" we have here from all the senior guys that used to fly the CRJ. If Tilden wants concessions on benefits and the Q400 rates as well, that's probably going to get ugly.
The other big unknown is what the plans are for the fleet once those airplanes come off lease in 2017. If the choice comes down to "concessions for jets, or we park 20% of the fleet", that's going to be received completely differently than if rejecting concessions results in the fleet size being maintained somehow, but no jets.
I think the one possible bargaining chip QX has is that a significant number of our routes would be hard to turn a profit on with jets, and I doubt AAG could find anyone willing to operate a small fleet of turboprops that are generally a maintenance nightmare, so AAG couldn't easily outsource all of our flying to Skywest.
If they ask for concessions on our current turbojet pay rate, but leave the prop rates and our benefits alone, there's a decent chance it would pass a vote with the pilot group, especially with the "reverse SJS" we have here from all the senior guys that used to fly the CRJ. If Tilden wants concessions on benefits and the Q400 rates as well, that's probably going to get ugly.
The other big unknown is what the plans are for the fleet once those airplanes come off lease in 2017. If the choice comes down to "concessions for jets, or we park 20% of the fleet", that's going to be received completely differently than if rejecting concessions results in the fleet size being maintained somehow, but no jets.
I think the one possible bargaining chip QX has is that a significant number of our routes would be hard to turn a profit on with jets, and I doubt AAG could find anyone willing to operate a small fleet of turboprops that are generally a maintenance nightmare, so AAG couldn't easily outsource all of our flying to Skywest.
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
They could have PenAir or Era/Hageland/Rav'n/Whatever do it. That's what I suspect will happen.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
We are already starting a PDX base. Alaska already wants us to serve old Q200 routes.
alaskadrifter
Landing gear operator
RavnWhatever is having problems finding pilots, they can hardly staff their own flying.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
I heard it was a tiny class that just started. We just started another class, so apparently we are attracting some people. I cant believe I am number 12 on the list.