PSA Street Captains?

In this thread? Trip? Wheelsup? You?

Only I guy know of that this applies to is Polar. Even then. He still doesn't know our background or what the future holds for FFD carriers.
I was just about to start my commercial certificate. 9/11 meant instructing for me for 2 years, moving around the country finding CFI gigs. I only got the one I did because I knew someone there. Moved 700 miles to the armpit of the nation. In my new hire class most guys CFI'd 6 months, or less.

Timing is everything. If anyone convinces you that a major gig isn't all about luck they aren't being truthful. Yes, some guys can make some of their own luck but when airlines aren't hiring, you can work your butt off and still never get a call.
 
To be fair, there are people doing "all of the above" and still haven't gotten a call.

I think that's anecdotal.

So far, it seems that "the key" is volunteerism. The people that I know who were hired that weren't part of the "flow", SSP or "I threw footballs at the USAFA" were h e a v i l y into volunteerism.

Do I like the system the powers that be have set up, absolutely a discussion for "Story Time with Uncle Derg" because I certainly have strong opinions about parts of the process, but it is what it is and you don't have to like it, but if you want the job you have to hold your nose and deal with it.

I gather they're looking for people who are going to be "more than pilots". Hell, even I'm in the ambassador program (doing a trade show next week!) and I'm at the point in my career where I could be resting on my laurels. They want sharp, motivated people and you can't swing a dead cat and smack fifty of them so their discriminator, right now, seems to be those that are volunteers.

I didn't do it. I'm just giving you a peek into the box.

We can bitch about the system and end up, well, bitching about the system. Or we can at least try to understand it and if the hassle is worth it, make it actionable.

Edit: Hell, just thinking, the guy who got hired in the "Congrats to Someone" thread was a big time volunteer at his company and got a lot of you guys that work there hired. I don't want to "out" the guy before he wants to do it himself, but are we all starting to see the connection here?
 
Last edited:
To clarify, I wasn't trying to imply I'm one of those people. I don't know what Delta's current hiring program is or what it requires to get an interview.
 
Maybe it's generational, I don't know.

I figure if the pretty girl at the high school dance likes Daffodils, I'm going to bring a beautiful assortment of super fresh Daffodils. Otherwise, there are a hundred other boys, all equally qualified to dance with her.

"Huh. I'm a boy. I like to dance. No fair" will say the rest.

Who said anything about life being fair, I'd ask.
 
Maybe it's generational, I don't know.

I figure if the pretty girl at the high school dance likes Daffodils, I'm going to bring a beautiful assortment of super fresh Daffodils. Otherwise, there are a hundred other boys, all equally qualified to dance with her.

"Huh. I'm a boy. I like to dance. No fair" will say the rest.

Who said anything about life being fair, I'd ask.

It's the same mentality as the guy who dislikes someone who hustles within his own airline and gets benefits from that, like becoming an instructor, for instance. Anything over the bare minimum is seen by some as getting things unfairly or out of seniority.
 
Eh, I understand the complaints. I don't like a system that rewards non-related volunteer work. It should be about qualifications. But Derg is right: if you want the job, you have to jump through the hoops.
 
Eh, I understand the complaints. I don't like a system that rewards non-related volunteer work. It should be about qualifications. But Derg is right: if you want the job, you have to jump through the hoops.

I don't. Everybody is qualified. How is the company to determine who is a go-getter vs a guy who just is a bump on a log? Those things distinguish them from each other. Thousands of applicants. You gotta be able to sort through them.
 
Eh, I understand the complaints. I don't like a system that rewards non-related volunteer work. It should be about qualifications. But Derg is right: if you want the job, you have to jump through the hoops.

Thinking of the three most recent, it's certainly related volunteer work to aviation or at least an aviation lean toward philanthropy. One guy was a pilot recruiter and mentor, the other guy was a volunteer with one of the three organizations that closely interfaces with SouthernJets and the other not volunteered with the same organization and also taught economically disadvantaged youth how to fly.

Far more than I did. I was a "youth at risk" counselor, volunteered at the VA hospital in Prescott and was on the "critical incident" team and safety committee at Skyway.
 
I don't. Everybody is qualified. How is the company to determine who is a go-getter vs a guy who just is a bump on a log? Those things distinguish them from each other. Thousands of applicants. You gotta be able to sort through them.

Sort through them by:

Total time
PIC time
Turbine time
Jet time
Type ratings
Instructing experience
International experience
Airbus experience
Boeing experience
Get the point?

You know, actual qualifications related to the job.
 
Thinking of the three most recent, it's certainly related volunteer work to aviation or at least an aviation lean toward philanthropy. One guy was a pilot recruiter and mentor, the other guy was a volunteer with one of the three organizations that closely interfaces with SouthernJets and the other not volunteered with the same organization and also taught economically disadvantaged youth how to fly.

Yeah, and I really don't have any problem with that sort of thing. In fact, I think that's a great way to select people.
 
We can argue back and forth on this all day to no end. Fact. A major airline that hires a RJ FO with 0 TPIC did not hire the most qualified applicant. I don't see how building a house for habitat for humanity makes one more qualified than a guy sitting left seat of a jet, signing the release, and responsible PIC for the flight. Airlines are hiring future Captains, not future volunteers. And if you decide to volunteer on your own time, good for you and more power to ya. It's all a game. The hardest part is getting the interview (at any major). Once you are there everyone is treated as equals. So you just have to play the game and roll with it.

In my interview group and in my class, I was the only one with 0 TPIC and the only in the 20s. I was the exception, not the norm. In my case it was sheer luck and excellent timing. And for 3 years I made the same mistake as trip7, being judgmental on regional pilots, telling them what they should or shouldn't do, instead of just being humble about the opportunity landed and count our blessings.
 
Thinking of the three most recent, it's certainly related volunteer work to aviation or at least an aviation lean toward philanthropy. One guy was a pilot recruiter and mentor, the other guy was a volunteer with one of the three organizations that closely interfaces with SouthernJets and the other not volunteered with the same organization and also taught economically disadvantaged youth how to fly.

Far more than I did. I was a "youth at risk" counselor, volunteered at the VA hospital in Prescott and was on the "critical incident" team and safety committee at Skyway.

Those are fine examples of volunteer work, especially the teaching the economically disadvantaged.
 
Sort through them by:

Total time

I had "median civilian"


Ehh, 99% of it was from instructing. 17 (maybe 18?) hours of TPIC.

Turbine time

Couple grand.


Zero.

Type ratings

Beech 1900, SIC required

Instructing experience

18 months, Off-the-street, some ab inito, some Korean AF to US license training

International experience

Like @Seggy, I went to Canada a few times on the 1900.

Airbus experience

Zero

Boeing experience

Zero

Get the point?

You know, actual qualifications related to the job.

And I wouldn't have a chance. But, here's the question, quite arrogantly of course, I think I've done more for my airline, my passengers and for aviation than the average guy that would shine simply by hiring solely on the above criteria.

Not, certainly, a universal answer, but they took a bet on me and I think I've done a good job the last 17 years.
 
I was talking to someone a couple years ago that does interviewing for a major. He said that he personally looks at the quality of the time that someone has, not just total time. He would rather hire someone that has 2500 hours in all types of environments and airplanes as opposed to someone that has 5000 hours in the same airplane doing the same thing over and over. He called it flying 2500 hours, not flying the same 1 hour trip 5000 times.

That has stuck with me.
 
Derg you have to admit that if those qualifications were presented today at Delta, you'd most likely be laughed at. Which is why it brings us back to the whole timing and luck category which IMO plays the biggest role in getting the call.
 
I had "median civilian"



Ehh, 99% of it was from instructing. 17 (maybe 18?) hours of TPIC.



Couple grand.



Zero.



Beech 1900, SIC required



18 months, Off-the-street, some ab inito, some Korean AF to US license training



Like @Seggy, I went to Canada a few times on the 1900.



Zero



Zero



And I wouldn't have a chance. But, here's the question, quite arrogantly of course, I think I've done more for my airline, my passengers and for aviation than the average guy that would shine simply by hiring solely on the above criteria.

Not, certainly, a universal answer, but they took a bet on me and I think I've done a good job the last 17 years.

I'm sure you've been a great employee, and there's no doubt that you've done a crapton for aviation. But yeah, I think the guy with 10,000 PIC time should have gotten the call first. No offense. :)
 
We can argue back and forth on this all day to no end. Fact. A major airline that hires a RJ FO with 0 TPIC did not hire the most qualified applicant. I don't see how building a house for habitat for humanity makes one more qualified than a guy sitting left seat of a jet, signing the release, and responsible PIC for the flight. Airlines are hiring future Captains, not future volunteers. And if you decide to volunteer on your own time, good for you and more power to ya. It's all a game. The hardest part is getting the interview (at any major). Once you are there everyone is treated as equals. So you just have to play the game and roll with it.

In my interview group and in my class, I was the only one with 0 TPIC and the only in the 20s. I was the exception, not the norm. In my case it was sheer luck and excellent timing. And for 3 years I made the same mistake as trip7, being judgmental on regional pilots, telling them what they should or shouldn't do, instead of just being humble about the opportunity landed and count our blessings.

Well, it depends on what you want to hire.

And at some airlines the most important part of the process is probably personality profile. The worst kept secret is that the most important part of the process once you get through the doors of the HR office are the MMPI (Minnesota Multiphase Personality Inventory) and the personnel interview.

I had an issue with a first officer I refer to as "FO Happy". Fairly disgruntled, happy about nothing, glass jaw under pressure, never took an opportunity to diffuse and move forward, was just a pain in the ass to fly with. I made a decision to delay an approach because of convective weather on our approach path, additionally the FOM guidance pretty much forbade us from making the approach until the cell moved off the approach path.

Plenty of fuel, we weren't the only ones delaying our approach and since it was the last leg and he had a soccer game to get to, he didn't hesitate to express his displeasure with me delaying the approach, even after we discussed it, talked about the weather trend and how the best course of action would be to delay for a few minutes.

"When I was captain at XYZ I would have done that approach, what's the big deal, you blah blah blah"

He knew I was brand new in my seat and wanted to assert, to me, that he had been captain for years on end at his last airline which I largely ignored because it wasn't the time or the place for that level of discussion, and at the end of the day, we discussed it, I took his input, gave my input, ran it through the "good captain, bad captain" flowchart and made a decision.

At the gate, he told me how he had years of experience flying as captain and it was a risk he would have taken, especially since I (me) knew that he had to be on the road to his kid's soccer game, et cetera.

I asked him "How much of that captain experience was as a SouthernJets A320 captain?"

"None"

"Exactly. It's been a great trip, enjoy the soccer game".

The "highly experienced" captain thing can be absolutely awesome in most circumstances, but can be a flipping pain in the ass in the wrong personality types and I think they're trying to screen for that.
 
Last edited:
Sort through them by:

Total time
PIC time
Turbine time
Jet time
Type ratings
Instructing experience
International experience
Airbus experience
Boeing experience
Get the point?

You know, actual qualifications related to the job.

Yeah, I get it. But you still think flight time and flying skill are what make a good employee. Flying skill is like 20% of the job. The other stuff is less tangible on a resume, but is far more important than hours.

Airlines aren't hiring pilots. They are hiring employees who happen to fly airplanes. It's more than just numbers.
 
Back
Top