Delta Disqualifiers

Maximillian_Jenius said:
I think that this has been said like a five million times in this thread, but people are still gnashing unnecessarily.
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Spend a year watching the Endeavor SSP and you might sympathize. :) Holy hell was that eye opening on what classified as "Delta Material" and "non-Delta Material".
 
Hacker15e said:
I wasn't being sarcastic -- I'm fully aware that Delta, right now, has intentionally decided that here at the beginning of the hiring wave they want to front-load with as many qualified military guys as possible. This is also coinciding with a pretty massive flood of pilots leaving the military, too (compared to any time that I'm aware of since the 1990s). All around the unit I'm in, and amongst former squadronmates located elsewhere, nearly everyone is getting hired by Big D and nearly none of them by by United or American. In fact, some of those being hired by Delta weren't even able to make it past the Hogan assessment for United.

Delta has, for as long as I've been aware (which is only back into the mid/late 1980s), traditionally favored military folks. People can debate why and if that's fair until they're blue in the face, but that simply "is" and "has been". Somebody there decided that's what they wanted to do, had the authority to determine that course of action, and it has stayed that way (so maybe ask Capt Kraby why the next time you see him). They've decided what works for them.

You have to realize, too, that there are also airlines out there who distinctly don't desire military pilots, so this isn't some unfair magic ticket that mil dudes have been awarded.
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I think it is silly that airlines will discriminate against qualified pilots; military or otherwise. A diverse workforce can only be a positive. I have heard of bad blood between military and civilian pilots even on jumpseats.
 
Hacker15e said:
I wasn't being sarcastic -- I'm fully aware that Delta, right now, has intentionally decided that here at the beginning of the hiring wave they want to front-load with as many qualified military guys as possible. This is also coinciding with a pretty massive flood of pilots leaving the military, too (compared to any time that I'm aware of since the 1990s). All around the unit I'm in, and amongst former squadronmates located elsewhere, nearly everyone is getting hired by Big D and nearly none of them by by United or American. In fact, some of those being hired by Delta weren't even able to make it past the Hogan assessment for United.

Delta has, for as long as I've been aware (which is only back into the mid/late 1980s), traditionally favored military folks. People can debate why and if that's fair until they're blue in the face, but that simply "is" and "has been". Somebody there decided that's what they wanted to do, had the authority to determine that course of action, and it has stayed that way (so maybe ask Capt Kraby why the next time you see him). They've decided what works for them.

You have to realize, too, that there are also airlines out there who distinctly don't desire military pilots, so this isn't some unfair magic ticket that mil dudes have been awarded.
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I was told they love "known quantity" pilots and we are still heavily military.

You can literally stop flying single seat fighters Tuesday and Wednesday be in new hire indoc learning the read Jepps the next. True story and that's ok because the new hire indoc process has been tailored for that since day one.

It is what it is.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
There hasn't been much hiring for a while, so you are correct. And that is exactly why they can be so picky at this point. Just watch- in a year and a half, the hiring picture will be VERY different.

Tortilla soup and the Santa Fe Salad. GLORIOUSNESS.
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What are your thoughts on the hiring picture next sumer? WAG... 3, 2, 1.. go!
 
Reading the last page or so, I see no problem with rewarding veterans with preferential hiring after their service. Better pilots or not, single-seat fighters or multi-crew bombers, they spent the better part of young adulthood and beyond potentially putting their life on the line for us. Just sayin', makes me a little sick when I hear friends trying to move up bitch about it.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
It was such a shocker that so many of the crazy senior lifers didn't make it through, wasn't it? ;)
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I said something about your precious HR didn't I? Don't cry. I didn't mean for you to get all angry and make fun of senior Endeavor pilots who didn't get the SSP (who aren't all lifers because some moved on).

To be clear, no HR is perfect, and it's not like we dedicate sections of the FOM with guys names to help. Hint: it's not as cute as having a grey pony tail and wearing a wig to cover it on the old mad dog.

Delta is a great company, Delta HR is great, it's hilarious that after all the bluster it really is just imperfect human beings doing as well as the flow sometimes. Once he's off probation I'll drop hints for ya! Keep knocking those senior guys if it makes you feel better, after all, Delta s giving them an extra 20k a year to stick around a couple more years for them as thanks. You owe them a few jabs, that could have been your bonus afterall.
 
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Maximillian_Jenius said:
No I didn't miss the point. And this could just be cause of the internets, but the impression whether real or misunderstood that I'm getting from what you're saying is that you want job, but don't want/or like to play the game or have to jump through the hoops to go about getting that coveted job. Because you want maximum time off for yourself, and to spend with your kids.

I commend you on being a father, but life is about politics, and learning and knowing how to play the game and win. Those that play well succeed, those that don't, flounder, become bitter and whine about it and their many short comings.
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See, here's the thing about me Max. I'm in the 75th percentile of the pilot group. What that means is about 75% of us aren't going to these job fairs, going to WIA conferences, joining GAPA, etc. And I'm completely okay with that. I also am currently working. It's not the best job, and I'm okay with that too, because I'm am still working. I won't get rich here, I'll never have the best schedule, or the most time off, and I'm okay with that too. I feel like I'm where I'm supposed to be right now. I want more, and when that time comes, it'll happen, however that's supposed to happen.
 
I also use my days off as time with family. Volunteering? I volunteer all my full time to my 1.5 year old son and pregnant wife. Zero free time or money to go to job fairs on days off away from them.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I am not Tier 1 material, I am content where I am now (as long as they don't go out of business) and at some point they will have to hire an average joe-shmoe Tier 3 pilot like me. I still have 25+ years to go in this career.
 
ChasenSFO said:
Reading the last page or so, I see no problem with rewarding veterans with preferential hiring after their service. Better pilots or not, single-seat fighters or multi-crew bombers, they spent the better part of young adulthood and beyond potentially putting their life on the line for us. Just sayin', makes me a little sick when I hear friends trying to move up bitch about it.
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I certainly have no expectation or even desire for any sort of "preferential" hiring simply due to where I've (quite voluntarily) hung my hat for the last 20 years. IMHO, there should simply be hiring based on qualifications and experience, and with a diversity of experience that will cross-pollenate the best traits of all the varied sects of professional aviation.

Where I think the train gets derailed is that none of us truly understand "how the other half lives" -- in other words, as a military dude, I certainly don't know what it is like to slog it out as a regional FO for 6 or 9 years while trying to get hired by a major, or even what sacrifices it took to get to that regional job in the first place. By the same token, a civilian pilot sees only that a military pilot didn't have to pay for his training out-of-pocket, and has no comparative perspective in terms of the intensity/complexity of the training and the actual flying that a military pilot has experienced.

I know lots of military pilots who look down their noses at civilian pilots like they're a subspecies, and have an expectation that the airlines are going to roll out the red carpet for the honor of hiring their sheer superior military awesomeness. I know just as many civilian pilots who think military guys are a bunch of egotistical blowhards who think they are a lot better than they really are, and couldn't CRM their way out of a parking lot, and thus have no business at an airline. Unfortunately, neither of those groups has any idea what they're talking about, yet they continue to pollute the pool with their ignorance.

We have to recognize that there are significant differences in both, as well as significant overlaps in skill and capability. There are certain aspects of a military pilot's skill and experience that major airlines find highly desirable. On the same token, there are certain aspects of that skill and experience that aren't quite as well suited for the airline world. The guys whose job it is to figure out which person to hire into the right seat have considerable experience doing what they're doing, and some pretty significant financial incentives to choose carefully. Some airlines have determined that the benefits of hiring ex-military guys outweigh the negatives. Some feel the opposite. Some see it as a wash between the two.

Either way, none of us have any say in the matter until some years down the road when we have the opportunity to be in the training department or recruiting department of a major. By that time, I would bet a tall stack of 12th-year FO pay at a legacy that we'll have a different perspective on the situation than we do right now, today...and I bet there won't be any significant changes to the preferences of who to hire into that right seat.
 
Table Two said:
I also use my days off as time with family. Volunteering? I volunteer all my full time to my 1.5 year old son and pregnant wife. Zero free time or money to go to job fairs on days off away from them.

I have resigned myself to the fact that I am not Tier 1 material, I am content where I am now (as long as they don't go out of business) and at some point they will have to hire an average joe-shmoe Tier 3 pilot like me. I still have 25+ years to go in this career.
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Apparently, that makes us slackers.
 
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