Envoy CRJ700 climb airspeed

genot

Well-Known Member
So I try to play nice guy on in trail speeds when time allows (and I'm asking for when I'm too busy to play 20 questions). I'll ask everyone in question and split the difference. As an approach guy, I know nothing about mach, acceleration in the flight levels etc, this strictly pertains to below FL180. A regional jet (unless its a CRJ200)will typically climb out at 270-290 KIAS. Mainline narrow bodies, 290-320, Heavies and 727's when they finally hit 10 and accelerate will do 320 or better around these parts.

Ask Envoy and only Envoy and its always over 300. The only thing that I won't ask about speeds when Envoy is number 2 departing is an L-1011. Its the only civilian aircraft I've worked that will no doubt out run their CRJ's in the climb. Does anyone know why they're the outlier?
 
How many L-1011s are you working? Last I heard there was like maybe 1 in ACMI service in the stans, but that was a good while ago.
 
How many L-1011s are you working? Last I heard there was like maybe 1 in ACMI service in the stans, but that was a good while ago.

You'd be surprised what pops up, but in total honesty, one, in training 7 years ago. It was followed by a 727 which is notorious for being barely able to climb but accelerating like a drag racer. I've seen some neat stuff on radar. Max performance climbs by brand spanking new fighters for example, but that old girl must have been banging through 340 indicated by about 15 miles off the runway.

Worked the Super Guppy once too. Wasn't a MiG 21 or F-4, but it was pretty interesting.
 
How many L-1011s are you working? Last I heard there was like maybe 1 in ACMI service in the stans, but that was a good while ago.

That's not the ONLY one still left. ;)

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargazer_(aircraft)
 
It's been a few years and a couple airplanes since then, but I want to say it was 290 in the climb and we'd transition to .77. We seem to always just fly it fast. One time we even passed by southwest!
 
I can't speak of Envoy specifically, but at Surejet our climb speed varies based on our cost index speeds which are based on all kinds of things and different for every flight.

Baring those, it's 250 until 10,000 and then 290.
 
I can't speak of Envoy specifically, but at Surejet our climb speed varies based on our cost index speeds which are based on all kinds of things and different for every flight.

Baring those, it's 250 until 10,000 and then 290.

I've found that, when we're late, and CI is way up there, doing 310-320, the 700-900 will climb at a damn good rate. The slower you go, the slower it climbs.
 
I've found that, when we're late, and CI is way up there, doing 310-320, the 700-900 will climb at a damn good rate. The slower you go, the slower it climbs.
I remember a lot of people saying that and always laughed. Try to hold 320 to 390, see how fast you get there. Just don't get behind the power curve, physics doesn't re-invent itself based on the engines.
 
I remember a lot of people saying that and always laughed. Try to hold 320 to 390, see how fast you get there. Just don't get behind the power curve, physics doesn't re-invent itself based on the engines.

You can't. You'll exceed MMO. But I can tell you from my own experience, that holding 320 till .82, you'll do at least 1500fpm till you level off. Just ask Max, our resident CRJ, umm, "line instructor."

In all seriousness though, the CRJ likes to go fast. It's got a little tiny wing. There was a reason that when the first CRJ's were introduced, they had higher go around rates than every other aircraft. It took controllers a while to plan their approach speeds into the flow.
 
You can't. You'll exceed MMO. But I can tell you from my own experience, that holding 320 till .82, you'll do at least 1500fpm till you level off. Just ask Max, our resident CRJ, umm, "line instructor."

In all seriousness though, the CRJ likes to go fast. It's got a little tiny wing. There was a reason that when the first CRJ's were introduced, they had higher go around rates than every other aircraft. It took controllers a while to plan their approach speeds into the flow.
You will no do 1500fpm through 390 holding any airspeed let alone .82, or 320 to .845 for that matter. Does the CRJ have magic wings that cause best rate of climb to go UP (ref IAS) with altitude?
The approach speeds are roughly the same as almost everything else. You're just pulling this out of anecdote land. Which is what pilots do best. Ref numbers are almost always in the 130s, which is the same as most of the 73s, a320s and most other jets.
 
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You will no do 1500fpm through 390 holding any airspeed let alone .82. Does the CRJ have magic wings that cause best rate of climb to go UP (ref IAS) with altitude?
The approach speeds are roughly the same as almost everything else. You're just pulling this out of anecdote land. Which is what pilots do best. Ref numbers are almost always in the 130s, which is the same as most of the 73s, a320s and most other jets.

Yeah, you're right, I'm not pulling this out from my own personal experience, just pulling it straight out of my ass. Just curious, how many hours do YOU have in a CRJ? Have you been "through the mill" at an airlines training department in, oh, say the last 6 months? Do you have access to speed cards that show you the ref speeds of a typical -200, or a -700, or even a -900? I do, and I'm actually looking at my company data.

And best rate of climb, as you should know, is NOT just a function of available wing. It's ALSO a function of available thrust. And as speed increases, so does the amount of thrust available.

An excerpt from one of the Navy pieces I read to wrap my head around a turbine engine better.

If we only consider the change in airflow velocity in the thrust equation, then thrust decreases with an increase in airspeed. Remember, that the thrust equation consists of two variables: mass (m) and acceleration (vfinal - Vinitial). As mentioned, the difference between inlet and exhaust velocities decreases as the aircraft increases speed. However, more and more air is being rammed into the inlet, increasing the mass and pressure of inlet air. This offsets the decrease in acceleration and results in a neutral effect or slight increase in thrust at subsonic airspeeds.

Source: http://www.netc.navy.mil/nascweb/api/student_guides/Eng_studentguide_18Jun2014 Change 1.pdf

I had a much longer reply posted, but decided to delete it. With your attitude, well, with your crass attitude, I decided not to post it. I'd be more than willing to discuss this, and why I believe the airplane that I fly, from my personal experience, climbs at a faster rate when going at a faster airspeed with someone who doesn't post things like "Does the CRJ have magic wings that cause best rate of climb to go UP (ref IAS) with altitude?"

Edit to add: If you can get ahold of some speed cards for the -200, have a peek at them. The approach speeds are higher than a lot of other equipment out there, at typical weights. I commute on 73's, 75's, 76's and 77's. They are slower on nearly every approach, by just about 10kts.
 
Great reference :)

I was going to PM - are there other chapters freely available?

I often wonder if civilians can study on such programs, if offered at distance.

Alex.
 
75's, 76's and 77's. They are slower on nearly every approach, by just about 10kts.

I have no experience on a CRJ, but with the above airplanes, they'll be slower because they're being flown light in the markets you're commuting on. Domestic 767 flights are often landed a full 60-80k lbs under MLW. Heavy 767-300 landing speeds are in the 150 range at the bug.
 
I have no experience on a CRJ, but with the above airplanes, they'll be slower because they're being flown light in the markets you're commuting on. Domestic 767 flights are often landed a full 60-80k lbs under MLW. Heavy 767-300 landing speeds are in the 150 range at the bug.

Same with us. But we don't have the huge weight margins to work with, so our speeds don't fluctuate like your speeds do. We are typically within less than 5-7k pounds of MLW if memory serves correct.

Load an RJ full of passengers, and you'll be within a few thousand pounds.
 
So I try to play nice guy on in trail speeds when time allows (and I'm asking for when I'm too busy to play 20 questions). I'll ask everyone in question and split the difference. As an approach guy, I know nothing about mach, acceleration in the flight levels etc, this strictly pertains to below FL180. A regional jet (unless its a CRJ200)will typically climb out at 270-290 KIAS. Mainline narrow bodies, 290-320, Heavies and 727's when they finally hit 10 and accelerate will do 320 or better around these parts.

Ask Envoy and only Envoy and its always over 300. The only thing that I won't ask about speeds when Envoy is number 2 departing is an L-1011. Its the only civilian aircraft I've worked that will no doubt out run their CRJ's in the climb. Does anyone know why they're the outlier?

Try not to over think depature speed, as a tracon puke your not gonna have the aircraft that long 290/300 works fine for 95% of the aircraft out there. put them in trail and let the Zs figure it out !
 
@genot most Eagle guys (me being one) climb out in VS or pitch mode, 9 out of 10 times the climb out speed ends up being in the range 300-320. The 700 is very overpowered.
 
The GIIIs I fly will do 2000+ fpm up to 410 if you hold 300 indicated and transition to Mach .80 in the climb. Gotta love those old straight jet engines!
 
Edit to add: If you can get ahold of some speed cards for the -200, have a peek at them. The approach speeds are higher than a lot of other equipment out there, at typical weights. I commute on 73's, 75's, 76's and 77's. They are slower on nearly every approach, by just about 10kts.

The approach speeds are higher on CRJ-200's because they don't have leading edge slats. Everything else you referenced does.
 
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