Delta Disqualifiers

ATN_Pilot said:
He's not. He's just the exception to the rule.
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I've actually flown with lots of oldschool (I mean, really oldschool) Delta South guys who've taken early retirement. In fact, I just took a PC with one not three days ago. I don't have a single bad thing to say about any of them. Great group of people. I think the newschool is where the attitude is coming from.
 
dasleben said:
I've actually flown with lots of oldschool (I mean, really oldschool) Delta South guys who've taken early retirement. In fact, I just took a PC with one not three days ago. I don't have a single bad thing to say about any of them. Great group of people. I think the newschool is where the attitude is coming from.
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That's great to hear. We are going through a culture clash in our merger as well. I hope all the positive aspects survive!
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Perhaps you can explain why Northwest, United, Continental, American, and USAirways have been able to hire just as safe and professional a group of pilots while not using your fabled algorithm? Did the algorithm creator's head explode when 6,000 NWA pilots joined the company without being subject to his perfect mathematical calculations about what makes a perfect Delta pilot?

Frankly, I don't really care what criteria HR uses. But it does annoy me when pilots look down their noses at other pilots.
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There's more to a pilot group than just flying skill and safety. Airlines look for culture and personality too, so I disagree that the results are "roughly the same." I've commuted a lot on various carriers, and the cultures are dramatically different in some cases.

I think it's more important to find a company that is a good fit in terms of culture than most anything else.
 
AAPalmTree said:
That's great to hear. We are going through a culture clash in our merger as well. I hope all the positive aspects survive!
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For sure. While the Atlas/Polar merger was before my time, we've got the same thing going on over here. Except, the newschool (folks like me) and Polar side folks are leading the charge to change our culture for the better.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
There's more to a pilot group than just flying skill and safety. Airlines look for culture and personality too, so I disagree that the results are "roughly the same." I've commuted a lot on various carriers, and the cultures are dramatically different in some cases.
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Culture is corporate BS. Only three things matter:

1. Is the pilot safe?
2. Is the pilot professional?
3. Can the pilot get along with well with others?

Everything else is just nonsense.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Culture is corporate BS. Only three things matter:

1. Is the pilot safe?
2. Is the pilot professional?
3. Can the pilot get along with well with others?

Everything else is just nonsense.
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JetBlue hires for a specific type of personality. I see new hires come through every 2 weeks (give or take) and they are all pretty similar guys. Out on line I flew with zero captains that I would put on a no fly list. There are some out there, but they are the first guys we hired before we could be choosy. They are called "the horrible hundred." (Top 100 guys.)

Culture is a real thing. And it IS something that a corporation has to manage. A very easy and cheap way to manage culture from the start is to be very careful about who you hire. I don't fault Delta for their process. They want a very specific type of guy. If they had a group full of JetBlue guys they would crap their pants. We aren't the same personality-wise. And that's ok.

From OUR perspective on the three things you mentioned matter. From a corporate point of view, culture matters too.
 
AAPalmTree said:
From what I've seen you're laid back and unpretentious. Not what I usually see from the south guys.
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The internet is no way to gather evidentiary material in which to judge a wide swath of any group of people.

There are some people who are happy with the process of joining in the team and there are others that are frustrated with the process. That's fully understandable.

Personally? I'm frustrated, because in my day, I could walk into Plato's office, ask "How's Mom and dem", talk about a person who I thought would be a great match for a pilot, we would pull up the file and a phone call would be made. And we had 10,000 pilots at the time.

We have 11,000 pilots now, even after the merger and the system has significantly changed. I don't know if it's better or worse, because it's a little more "formulaic" now, but a lot of us are doing our best to somewhat rationalize and untangle it.

I sat down with my chief pilot on friday and had a great conversation. There are some things said that are true, some things said that I swear involved a lot of 'creativity', but at the end, it's been explained as a much different process from anything I've actively read in the thread.

Everyone that meets the basic qualifications will be considered in due time. People that possess the competitive qualifications will be considered in due time as well, maybe just a little earlier.

Competitive qualifications is like a stock price, they change daily.

The airline has a number of applications on file that meet the qualifications. Let's call that "X"

We also have a number of people that have letters of recommendation on file that have also applied. Let's call that "Y".

We have a number of people that have applied, have letters of recommendation on file and also that have the people that have written letters of recommendation that have also sent a note to the "Pilot Selection" email address. We'll call that group "Z".

Group "Z" is a much smaller figure than "X" and "Y" so they're primarily looking at that group.

Now within that group, there's additional filtering I was told because it's a fairly homogenous group.

Things like volunteerism give you a HUGE advantage over a person that has none. If you're trying to apply and you know darned well you've done some philanthropic work, highlight it. If you haven't, go out next week and do some TO DAY.

The tiers aren't representative of 'the cream of the crop', it's more representative of some sort of selection criteria.

Think of it like "peer groups" and not "tiers". If a person thinks they're "tier one", they probably aren't because you're not told that, no one will ever tell you that and do not presume.

Again, I'm speaking solely for myself and my personal interpretation of what was discussed in a private conversation in an unofficial conversation and I may be completely wrong, which is fine.

Every airline needs solid people. If it was down to a complete science on using metrics to quantify who is the best candidate, Match.com and eHarmony would have gone out of business in their first month because they'd have no repeat business. Something to think about.
 
Derg said:
The internet is no way to gather evidentiary material in which to judge a wide swath of any group of people.

There are some people who are happy with the process of joining in the team and there are others that are frustrated with the process. That's fully understandable.

Personally? I'm frustrated, because in my day, I could walk into Plato's office, ask "How's Mom and dem", talk about a person who I thought would be a great match for a pilot, we would pull up the file and a phone call would be made. And we had 10,000 pilots at the time.

We have 11,000 pilots now, even after the merger and the system has significantly changed. I don't know if it's better or worse, because it's a little more "formulaic" now, but a lot of us are doing our best to somewhat rationalize and untangle it.

I sat down with my chief pilot on friday and had a great conversation. There are some things said that are true, some things said that I swear involved a lot of 'creativity', but at the end, it's been explained as a much different process from anything I've actively read in the thread.

Everyone that meets the basic qualifications will be considered in due time. People that possess the competitive qualifications will be considered in due time as well, maybe just a little earlier.

Competitive qualifications is like a stock price, they change daily.

The airline has a number of applications on file that meet the qualifications. Let's call that "X"

We also have a number of people that have letters of recommendation on file that have also applied. Let's call that "Y".

We have a number of people that have applied, have letters of recommendation on file and also that have the people that have written letters of recommendation that have also sent a note to the "Pilot Selection" email address. We'll call that group "Z".

Group "Z" is a much smaller figure than "X" and "Y" so they're primarily looking at that group.

Now within that group, there's additional filtering I was told because it's a fairly homogenous group.

Things like volunteerism give you a HUGE advantage over a person that has none. If you're trying to apply and you know darned well you've done some philanthropic work, highlight it. If you haven't, go out next week and do some TO DAY.

The tiers aren't representative of 'the cream of the crop', it's more representative of some sort of selection criteria.

Think of it like "peer groups" and not "tiers". If a person thinks they're "tier one", they probably aren't because you're not told that, no one will ever tell you that and do not presume.

Again, I'm speaking solely for myself and my personal interpretation of what was discussed in a private conversation in an unofficial conversation and I may be completely wrong, which is fine.

Every airline needs solid people. If it was down to a complete science on using metrics to quantify who is the best candidate, Match.com and eHarmony would have gone out of business in their first month because they'd have no repeat business. Something to think about.
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Now THIS is a solid post. Unpretentious, and lays it out clearly. Had this been posted 12 pages ago, this thread may have quickly simmered down.
 
Derg said:
The internet is no way to gather evidentiary material in which to judge a wide swath of any group of people.

There are some people who are happy with the process of joining in the team and there are others that are frustrated with the process. That's fully understandable.

Personally? I'm frustrated, because in my day, I could walk into Plato's office, ask "How's Mom and dem", talk about a person who I thought would be a great match for a pilot, we would pull up the file and a phone call would be made. And we had 10,000 pilots at the time.

We have 11,000 pilots now, even after the merger and the system has significantly changed. I don't know if it's better or worse, because it's a little more "formulaic" now, but a lot of us are doing our best to somewhat rationalize and untangle it.

I sat down with my chief pilot on friday and had a great conversation. There are some things said that are true, some things said that I swear involved a lot of 'creativity', but at the end, it's been explained as a much different process from anything I've actively read in the thread.

Everyone that meets the basic qualifications will be considered in due time. People that possess the competitive qualifications will be considered in due time as well, maybe just a little earlier.

Competitive qualifications is like a stock price, they change daily.

The airline has a number of applications on file that meet the qualifications. Let's call that "X"

We also have a number of people that have letters of recommendation on file that have also applied. Let's call that "Y".

We have a number of people that have applied, have letters of recommendation on file and also that have the people that have written letters of recommendation that have also sent a note to the "Pilot Selection" email address. We'll call that group "Z".

Group "Z" is a much smaller figure than "X" and "Y" so they're primarily looking at that group.

Now within that group, there's additional filtering I was told because it's a fairly homogenous group.

Things like volunteerism give you a HUGE advantage over a person that has none. If you're trying to apply and you know darned well you've done some philanthropic work, highlight it. If you haven't, go out next week and do some TO DAY.

The tiers aren't representative of 'the cream of the crop', it's more representative of some sort of selection criteria.

Think of it like "peer groups" and not "tiers". If a person thinks they're "tier one", they probably aren't because you're not told that, no one will ever tell you that and do not presume.

Again, I'm speaking solely for myself and my personal interpretation of what was discussed in a private conversation in an unofficial conversation and I may be completely wrong, which is fine.

Every airline needs solid people. If it was down to a complete science on using metrics to quantify who is the best candidate, Match.com and eHarmony would have gone out of business in their first month because they'd have no repeat business. Something to think about.
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Most of the encounters with the south guys took place on the Jumpseat. My decision to not apply at Delta was the "vibe" I got interacting with those guys. I'm a better fit where I am. I would guess others would say the same about this place.

I hear the selection process is the same here. I have to disagree with the volunteer aspect. Some are too busy with what they have on their own plate.

I think the "disqualifiers" is misleading. Keep your nose clean, do your time, apply everywhere. The phone will ring. Eventually.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
JetBlue hires for a specific type of personality.
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No one is denying that. Most airlines have a "type" that they look for. The point is that it's irrelevant, though. The end result is the same. Delta's "type" will generate ASMs just like Southwest's "type" will.
 
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