Seggy on Emirates!

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I like the article but some of the comments make we want to punt small children.

That's the way it always is.

John Q Public thinks they're going to get white glove service at a steep discount (or free because they buy their gas on a particular credit card) between Los Angeles and Fresno.

I wish I could find it, but I read a comment on another article about writing her state representative to pressure American to refund some of her air fare to Florida because gas was lower now.

Never underestimate an idiots keyboarding skills.
 
At one point, Emirates was trying to expand into Calgary and increase their frequency to Toronto. The Canadian government blocked it as Canadian airlines didn't have equal access into Dubai. They responded by requiring Canadian citizens to get an overpriced Visa in order to travel to the country. They just recently got rid of the visa requirement for Canadians. Also, Air Canada just announced they will be doing 3X weekly flights to DBX beginning next year on the 787. At the moment, EK flies into YYZ 3X weekly with the A380.

I don't think they understand the concept of "fair" competition. They want to dominate!
 
That's the way it always is.

John Q Public thinks they're going to get white glove service at a steep discount (or free because they buy their gas on a particular credit card) between Los Angeles and Fresno.

I wish I could find it, but I read a comment on another article about writing her state representative to pressure American to refund some of her air fare to Florida because gas was lower now.

Never underestimate an idiots keyboarding skills.

Yeah, it's like you often say, the interwebs are unfortunately a megaphone for any idiot with a keyboard. Rather than using it as a place to exchange ideas and gain a deeper understanding of an issue they might not know about, it becomes a launch pad for Kim Kardashian's bank account, ugly felines and Joe Schmoe's emotional and oft under-educated opinion.

I understand the need for free market competition and all that but I'm also a believer in protecting and creating decent jobs within our own borders. What Emirates wants isn't competition, it's elimination and they know that unless we proactively protect our own by artificially leveling the playing field somehow, we're going to get crushed.

Or at least that's how I see things. I could be wrong, it's been known to happen.
 
I enjoy the business the Ex-Im bank has brought my company.
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At one point, Emirates was trying to expand into Calgary and increase their frequency to Toronto. The Canadian government blocked it as Canadian airlines didn't have equal access into Dubai. They responded by requiring Canadian citizens to get an overpriced Visa in order to travel to the country. They just recently got rid of the visa requirement for Canadians. Also, Air Canada just announced they will be doing 3X weekly flights to DBX beginning next year on the 787. At the moment, EK flies into YYZ 3X weekly with the A380.

I don't think they understand the concept of "fair" competition. They want to dominate!

I wish they didn't understand the concept of fair competition.

I think what actually is the case is, they simply don't care.

With only 15% O&D traffic at DXB, a place with 85% connecting pax needs every available downline destination it can get in order to keep the passengers from the other direction coming in.

If someone needs to travel from Karachi to Calgary and they can't do a Calgary flight from DXB with a convenient connection, that passenger is automatically out of their running and has to take another airline via Europe or wherever.
 
That's the way it always is.

John Q Public thinks they're going to get white glove service at a steep discount (or free because they buy their gas on a particular credit card) between Los Angeles and Fresno.

I wish I could find it, but I read a comment on another article about writing her state representative to pressure American to refund some of her air fare to Florida because gas was lower now.

Never underestimate an idiots keyboarding skills.

You know... I dropped my Civic off to get some work done at the dealership the other day. And I took the dealership shuttle van to the airport to go do my weekly Redbird sim session at a local flight school. So anyway, I happened to be the first customer the shuttle was dropping off and the other passengers asked me if I was a pilot... So after a couple seconds, I start getting berated with questions about why air fares haven't gotten cheaper with the lower gas prices. I then told them that Delta has their own refinery. You should of seen the looks on their faces. Unbelievable.
 
Misleading article full of emotional arguments.

Our U.S. carriers operate in a free market;

No they don't. It's free market until the government decides to step in and regulate what they want. Slots, AST loans, the bankruptcy laws from 2008 and prior, etc.

they fight every day to deliver a quality product while staying profitable. They also invest heavily in our local economy through employment; United Airlines alone employs more than 16,000 people out of George W. Bush Intercontinental Airport. In contrast, despite all the fanfare surrounding Emirates new A380 service, the fact is that they only employ a handful of people here in Houston to support their daily roundtrip flight. The connections that U.S.-airlines make to Washington, D.C., New York, London, Canada and many other places are arguably more important to Houston's future, and these connections are made by U.S. companies and U.S. employees powering our American economy.

One paragraph that basically says that Houston is a full United hub, whereas just a single destination for Emirates. So? United is more than welcome to fly from IAH to DXB if they wanted to.


However, as one of the nearly 600,000 Americans directly employed by U.S. airlines, I am concerned that our U.S.-based airlines are at a competitive disadvantage to several foreign, state-supported carriers now entering our market.

Meh. I'd be more concerned about 50% of your United airline's flying that is completely outsourced and done by regional airline pilots that make a fraction of what you make as a legacy pilot. Same tickets, same livery, same hubs.

With that in mind, I would hope our civic leaders would be more measured in their praise. Thanks to its state-sponsorship, Emirates currently has $150 billion worth of large aircraft on order, more than double the entire market capitalization of the United States airline industry. They have unlimited resources, which they are choosing to use to take market share away from the other carriers here in Houston. That's bad news for our airlines, their employees and our city.

Take market share away? Really? If I want to get from Houston to Karachi or the Maldives, how will United do that? Emirates can do it with one stop in Dubai.

Emirates is in Houston to take routes, profits and jobs away from U.S. carriers.

No job has been lost at United because Emirates came to Houston in an A380.
 
Misleading article full of emotional arguments.



No they don't. It's free market until the government decides to step in and regulate what they want. Slots, AST loans, the bankruptcy laws from 2008 and prior, etc.



One paragraph that basically says that Houston is a full United hub, whereas just a single destination for Emirates. So? United is more than welcome to fly from IAH to DXB if they wanted to.




Meh. I'd be more concerned about 50% of your United airline's flying that is completely outsourced and done by regional airline pilots that make a fraction of what you make as a legacy pilot. Same tickets, same livery, same hubs.



Take market share away? Really? If I want to get from Houston to Karachi or the Maldives, how will United do that? Emirates can do it with one stop in Dubai.



No job has been lost at United because Emirates came to Houston in an A380.
Very well said. The fact of the matter is EK is a business and doesnt get money from Sheikh Mo, he gets money FROM the airline. It earns the country tons of money. Also it's a huge cargo company too
 
Whoever wrote that article has a very simplistic understanding of airlines; airline business; and economics. Some of the same old tired arguments, with little to no basis in fact, that come out of ALPA. Glad to see some of the posters here on JC can see through that and can think for themselves.

Riddle me this, from an article I posted here earlier today in the airline section:

The pressure is highest across the Pacific. Transpacific seats are scheduled to increase 7% in the first quarter and 5% in the second quarter compared to a year earlier, schedule data cited by Raymond James shows. China dominates these increases with seat capacity up 22% and 14%, respectively, compared to 2014.

US carriers are addressing these competitive increases in different ways. Delta plans to cut its Pacific capacity by 6% to 8%, largely from reducing aircraft gauge and cutting intra-Asia flying.

Airplanes are full; demand is up; and Delta is cutting capacity in the market. Basically giving away market share to new entrants. I don't get it.

Soon, they'll be airline pilots writing articles about unfair competition in the Pacific and how these Chinese carriers need to be blocked for some reason.

I wish the best for U.S. airlines. I really do not see how cutting capacity or failing to service demand in the growing global marketplace are going to help U.S. carriers over the long run though. I've been trying to make that point here for a few years now. Simplistic understanding of global travel trends and jingoistic, unionist, protectionist strategies and arguments are not going to be good for U.S. airlines or U.S. airline pilots over the long run.

The world is not fair. It never has been and it never will be. Get over it already!! There will always be something the other side has that is "bigger", "better", etc. It takes leadership, vision, and courage to be creative and find ways to win even with those factors in place. Throw in a little guile, cunning, deceit, guanxi, or outright bribery and now you're doing business with the big boys of the world. That's just how it is. Crying about how unfair the world is won't help and it certainly won't change things.


Typhoonpilot
 
Whoever wrote that article has a very simplistic understanding of airlines; airline business; and economics. Some of the same old tired arguments, with little to no basis in fact, that come out of ALPA. Glad to see some of the posters here on JC can see through that and can think for themselves.

Riddle me this, from an article I posted here earlier today in the airline section:

The pressure is highest across the Pacific. Transpacific seats are scheduled to increase 7% in the first quarter and 5% in the second quarter compared to a year earlier, schedule data cited by Raymond James shows. China dominates these increases with seat capacity up 22% and 14%, respectively, compared to 2014.

US carriers are addressing these competitive increases in different ways. Delta plans to cut its Pacific capacity by 6% to 8%, largely from reducing aircraft gauge and cutting intra-Asia flying.

Airplanes are full; demand is up; and Delta is cutting capacity in the market. Basically giving away market share to new entrants. I don't get it.

Soon, they'll be airline pilots writing articles about unfair competition in the Pacific and how these Chinese carriers need to be blocked for some reason.

I wish the best for U.S. airlines. I really do not see how cutting capacity or failing to service demand in the growing global marketplace are going to help U.S. carriers over the long run though. I've been trying to make that point here for a few years now. Simplistic understanding of global travel trends and jingoistic, unionist, protectionist strategies and arguments are not going to be good for U.S. airlines or U.S. airline pilots over the long run.

The world is not fair. It never has been and it never will be. Get over it already!! There will always be something the other side has that is "bigger", "better", etc. It takes leadership, vision, and courage to be creative and find ways to win even with those factors in place. Throw in a little guile, cunning, deceit, guanxi, or outright bribery and now you're doing business with the big boys of the world. That's just how it is. Crying about how unfair the world is won't help and it certainly won't change things.


Typhoonpilot
The reason carriers are cutting Asia pacific capacity is because there is too much and margins are negative.

They are using restraint and reducing capacity to push margins up because they are trying to operate a business, unlike EK who throws money at everything because it comes out of a bottomless hole.

If there was a single US national carrier it would dominate the world stage, unfortunately US carriers have to compete inside the US as well as outside it in a unfavorable business and tax environment. Pretending Emirates is awesome due to their management is just sticking your head in the sand IMO.
 
Guys. What have been some of your experiences where a company based in another country has provided a better product/service than would have been executed domestically. I'm not asking rhetorically … the only thing that comes to mind after a few moments of contemplation is "the ability to mass produce retail goods at a price that nets more revenue for the company."

For airlines specifically, 'better' also means they fly to where you want to go -- an extensive network.
 
I have a bridge to sell between Manhattan and Brooklyn for @typhoonpilot , @Skåning , and @Cherokee_Cruiser to buy.


Here is the problem, it is you who have been "sold the bridge" and you have yet to figure it out.

What do I mean? Very likely you grew up in a predominantly white suburban middle class neighborhood in the USA. In that neighborhood and in the majority of similar neighborhoods in North America you learned that being "fair" and "working hard" would help you to be successful in life. Most of the people you and your parents dealt with were honest and even helpful. You learned that honestly, integrity, and loyalty were good character traits that would benefit you in life.

You watched the news and saw executives of big U.S. corporations get into legal trouble for using bribery to secure a contract in a foreign country. You saw justice in the courts of the United States.

That actually worked in North America for most of the 50s, 60s, 70s, and even a little into the 80s. Why? Because the world was not anywhere near the global marketplace it is today. Most companies dealt domestically or with partners in Western Europe, where similar values were still the norm. They could compete in this environment.

The world has changed dramatically in the last 20-30 years. It is now a very global marketplace. Huge economies have emerged in India, China, Brazil, Eastern Europe, Africa. South America, and the rest of Asia. The majority of the people in those countries do not subscribe to the same values that you do. They cheat, lie, steal, bribe, and even kill to get to the top or to make a dollar. Those values go to their large companies and their governments as well.

So how do you compete against that? Hold the high ground with your honestly, integrity, and quest for fairness? I wish,.......................really I do. But, I've been out in that world and I've seen how it works. Neither you, me, the U.S. government, ALPA, or anyone else is going to change the way the world works in the short term.

If U.S. companies want to be successful in this new global marketplace they have to let go of these ideals of competition and how business worked in the past. They have to adapt to the reality of who they are competing with and how those people/companies think. They have to find innovative solutions to combat their foreign competitors.

You wrote this:

"A portion of Emirates' fleet is purchased with subsidies from Export Credit agencies (like the U.S. Export-Import Bank), reducing the cost of the aircraft to well below market value. U.S. airlines aren't eligible for this kind of financing, so these taxpayer-backed subsidies translate to a large market advantage over us."


There is so much wrong in those two sentences and it just drives home my point. As well a lot of exaggeration and mis-direction in those two sentences. A portion of Emirates fleet is actually around 10% of the fleet. Hardly enough to make a substantial competitive difference. You say this is tax-payer backed subsidies. The Ex-Im bank makes a profit, how is that a subsidy?

You say these "subsidies" reduce the cost of the aircraft to well below market value. How do you know this for a fact. When Delta, American, or UAL make a 100 aircraft order do they get discounts? When they buy Airbus aircraft do they get help from Airbus financing them? Indeed, is the list price of an Airbus aircraft not lower because of European subsidies in the first place?

Would you rather see Boeing go out of business entirely or would you like them to be able to fight back a little in getting aircraft orders from foreign airlines? When Boeing aircraft are sold does that not add to the U.S. economy? Does that not add jobs, many high paying union jobs? Do those happily employed Americans not travel on U.S. airlines for vacation and business? Does that not help U.S. carriers increase their revenue.

To think that Airbus is not out there actively bribing customers, and that the European governments that subsidize them are not fully aware and encouraging of those actions is naïve at best. Add in Embraer, Bombardier, Mitsubishi, Comac, Sukhoi, and ATR and it's probably even worse. Boeing only has the quality of their airplanes and the help they can get a customer in financing those airplanes as a weapon to level the playing field a little ( I used one of your favorite phrases :) ). You would handicap them to the detriment of their U.S. employees, suppliers, and the U.S. economy? They are fighting the unfair world legally and with the help of the U.S. government and you would take that away from them.



Typhoonpilot
 
The reason carriers are cutting Asia pacific capacity is because there is too much and margins are negative.


Did you not read the article? Only DAL is cutting capacity while others, especially foreign competitors are increasing capacity. That is known as "giving up market share". Not a real good long term strategy. Short term it's great because you can show profitability and high seat factors. Typical stupid short sighted U.S. management thinking ( not referring to you, just the strategy ).

They are using restraint and reducing capacity to push margins up because they are trying to operate a business, unlike EK who throws money at everything because it comes out of a bottomless hole.

Clearly you do not understand Emirates business practices and therefore should probably not comment. What bottomless hole does Emirates pull their money from? They received a loan of $10 million to start the airline in 1985. They have not received any money since. They have been consistently profitable for decades and pay a dividend to their majority shareholder ( the government of Dubai ). You may make the above comment about Qatar and Etihad and it would be true, but not Emirates.

If there was a single US national carrier it would dominate the world stage, unfortunately US carriers have to compete inside the US as well as outside it in a unfavorable business and tax environment. Pretending Emirates is awesome due to their management is just sticking your head in the sand IMO.

No argument on the unfavorable business and tax environment that U.S. carriers operate under. Why don't ALPA and U.S. airline employees go after those issues instead of NAI and Ex-Im financing?

Emirates is an incredibly well run airline on the commercial side. The managers know how to maximize passenger and freight revenue. They know how to start routes and attract customers so that they become profitable almost immediately. They know how to get their brand out in the public realm so that customers choose them even though their prices are often higher than their competitors.

If you'd stop for a moment and rationally evaluate the company and what I have said here and on other threads then perhaps it is you who will be able to get your head out of the sand.

Typhoonpilot
 
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