How to Annoy your First Officer
- Thread starter CRJDriver
- Start date
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Thank you + a billion. I've noticed as a career FO that the problem childs are typically the guys who spent only 0 (street CA) to 2 years as FO before getting the upgrade. Although not all pilots are like this, but the problem childs are the ones in this case who did not 1. get humbled enough in the right seat and/or 2. didn't really get spend that much time in the right seat and/or 3. limited habits that went uncorrected due to a quick upgrade. Once in the left seat, those spill out and make for a hellish trip.
Classic example. I've pulled speed to 250 (ATC assigned) and thrust idle/open descent to get down with half spoilers (which is max with AP on) to get down (we were high). This CA says spoilers aren't really that comfortable for passengers, and..........."try this instead..... [puts speed from 250 to 255). You think ATC will notice a 5 knot difference?"
ATC sees all.
I don't understand the aversion to using speed brakes. If you need them, use them.
It might rumble a bit in the back for the people who, after all, paid for an airplane ride, but it's a lot less jarring than a poorly-managed descent, having to call for the gear early, S-turns and a go-around because you're outside of the stabilized approach criteria.
I don't understand the aversion to using speed brakes. If you need them, use them.
It might rumble a bit in the back for the people who, after all, paid for an airplane ride, but it's a lot less jarring than a poorly-managed descent, having to call for the gear early, S-turns and a go-around because you're outside of the stabilized approach criteria.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Unless they're 737 speed brakes which increase the rate of descent from 1200 fpm to 1500 fpm (if you're lucky) while simultaneously shaking the living heck out of the poor 1960s era airframe and everything unfortunate enough to be strapped inside of it.
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
He made me take it down during boarding.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
I wish I had known how awesome you were when we flew together. You are seriously my hero. I must have one...
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Try to get the Buddy Christ from "Dogma." It's the only way to go.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
At every 135 employer the speed brakes have been referred to as "mistake brakes."
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
In training at XJT they mentioned some people had that view on the line. I have yet to find a CA that believes that to be the case, and I fly with some very senior guys.
Some planes require the use of speed brakes. Trying to slow below 200kts in a 145XR while on a glide slope can take a long time. Speed brakes are definitely a better option than gear for a quick slow down.
ERfly
Well-Known Member
There were some over-zealous ground school instructors (F/Os themselves, mind you) that were telling new hires during the hiring binge of 2007 that it was the mark of a bad pilot to use the speed brakes. I corrected that bad habit many times with many F/Os descending into ONT from the East, where you have around 20 miles to lose 10,000 feet in order to have a stabilized approach.
ross9238
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't mind that at all. Whoever makes it fall on landing, has to buy the first round. That looks like it was in the CRJ. Gotta have a new pic from the blue
.
When I first got to SouthernJets, it was seen as a sign of a last minute attempt to salvage poor descent planning.
But the culture shifted fairly quickly because the days in airplanes like the 727 where you could essentially cut the power and point the nose at something were over and there were more planes like the 757 which was a jet-powered Grob Motorglider and fewer like the DC-9 where "280…. slats extend" while working your way back to Flaps 23 made the plane fly like a express elevator to hell.
I just woke up, probably none of that makes any sense.
But the culture shifted fairly quickly because the days in airplanes like the 727 where you could essentially cut the power and point the nose at something were over and there were more planes like the 757 which was a jet-powered Grob Motorglider and fewer like the DC-9 where "280…. slats extend" while working your way back to Flaps 23 made the plane fly like a express elevator to hell.
I just woke up, probably none of that makes any sense.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Terrible pilots get paid the same as excellent pilots. But who is better at tactical bidding? That's the important question...
GypsyPilot
Mohawk Town
That is a great example of when they're needed. Also, when doing one of the LAX arrivals and they have you do 250 as long as possible. This is particularly true in the CRJ 200 with the 200 kt flap limitation.
I certainly do strive to not use the speed brakes, as I feel it's a sign of bad planning if one is constantly yanking them out. When I do need them, I'm at least smooth with it. You can certainly tell when guys have never flown any charter/corporate in their careers, as they are pretty rough with the plane.
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