United reaching out to ALPA FFD Carriers

propsync said:
No, in the rest of the world you simply take PTO when you need to. It's paid time off, maybe its a sick day maybe its not. PTO is not a loan, you've already earned it, its yours.
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Like it or not, the airline business is unique. If everybody can drop regardless of coverage, then air travel might as well just shut down on major holidays and weekends.

It's not a loan, and it is yours, but you cannot just use it without ensuring the integrity of the operation. I don't understand why people can't look beyond their narrow viewpoint to see the "big picture."
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Like it or not, the airline business is unique. If everybody can drop regardless of coverage, then air travel might as well just shut down on major holidays and weekends.

It's not a loan, and it is yours, but you cannot just use it without ensuring the integrity of the operation. I don't understand why people can't look beyond their narrow viewpoint to see the "big picture."
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And on the other hand, the Company should maintain an adequate pilot force so that, while you might not have 25Dec off every year, you should at least be able to have some time off...
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Like it or not, the airline business is unique. If everybody can drop regardless of coverage, then air travel might as well just shut down on major holidays and weekends.
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It's a somewhat self correcting system. For example, PSA has language in their contract that allows (line holding) pilots, during a schedule adjustment period, to drop or trade ANY days they want, as long as their credit for the month stays above 65 hours. The SAP is done prior to a reserve grid being worked out which means there are no trade/drop is denied unless it hits an FAR limit or other contractual FTDT buffer.

That means that on a holiday there may be a huge number of uncovered trips to fly. That results in pay overrides for people to pick up the trips or junior manning (even higher pay) to cover the flying. So, in the end, pilots get paid more to fly on holidays, whether they want to be there (pick ups) or not (junior mans and extensions) and the flying still gets covered.
 
BobDDuck said:
It's a somewhat self correcting system. For example, PSA has language in their contract that allows (line holding) pilots, during a schedule adjustment period, to drop or trade ANY days they want, as long as their credit for the month stays above 65 hours. The SAP is done prior to a reserve grid being worked out which means there are no trade/drop is denied unless it hits an FAR limit or other contractual FTDT buffer.

That means that on a holiday there may be a huge number of uncovered trips to fly. That results in pay overrides for people to pick up the trips or junior manning (even higher pay) to cover the flying. So, in the end, pilots get paid more to fly on holidays, whether they want to be there (pick ups) or not (junior mans and extensions) and the flying still gets covered.
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I love the SAP like a shark loves blood. It's like Christmas time, every month.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
And on the other hand, the Company should maintain an adequate pilot force so that, while you might not have 25Dec off every year, you should at least be able to have some time off...
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No argument there. If EVERY day starts out red, there's a problem. Normally by mid month they go red regardless of staffing because people drop stuff into open time or reserves swap/drop days. But the days should start green, for sure.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Like it or not, the airline business is unique. If everybody can drop regardless of coverage, then air travel might as well just shut down on major holidays and weekends."
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What I am saying is that the airline business is not unique. In most places, PTO, vacation, personal, floating holidays, etc can't just be taken at a moment's notice. Advance approval is required. Those who don't follow the rules get fired.

When I was in healthcare, nurses couldn't simply do that. There were ratios that had to be adhered to per the regulations. Now that I am in an industry sans patients, we still need coverage in order to function. If all the AV Techs decide to take the day off, there is no one who can run sound. Is all the shop associates do the same, we would have to close the shop. If all the visitor service staff do the same, we would have real issues taking care of our visitors. And if it was security, we could not open at all.

I don't know of a single organization that has no policy other than sole proprietors, family owned business where the freedom to just take off applies to the family members only and the like!
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
No argument there. If EVERY day starts out red, there's a problem. Normally by mid month they go red regardless of staffing because people drop stuff into open time or reserves swap/drop days. But the days should start green, for sure.
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Coverage days are a farce at some carriers, like one we previously worked at.
 
HRDiva said:
What I am saying is that the airline business is not unique. In most places, PTO, vacation, personal, floating holidays, etc can't just be taken at a moment's notice. Advance approval is required. Those who don't follow the rules get fired.

When I was in healthcare, nurses couldn't simply do that. There were ratios that had to be adhered to per the regulations. Now that I am in an industry sans patients, we still need coverage in order to function. If all the AV Techs decide to take the day off, there is no one who can run sound. Is all the shop associates do the same, we would have to close the shop. If all the visitor service staff do the same, we would have real issues taking care of our visitors. And if it was security, we could not open at all.

I don't know of a single organization that has no policy other than sole proprietors, family owned business where the freedom to just take off applies to the family members only and the like!
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Pretty much everywhere I've ever known of is like you described, except for the home builder that my wife works for.
I have seen her burn PTO days at the last minute and never be questioned, just approved. Those companies do seem to trade employees back and forth quite a bit, though.
 
Beep said:
Pretty much everywhere I've ever known of is like you described, except for the home builder that my wife works for.
I have seen her burn PTO days at the last minute and never be questioned, just approved. Those companies do seem to trade employees back and forth quite a bit, though.
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I give my employees time off at the last minute, too. But it's at my discretion. The official policy in the handbook says you have to submit your request for vacation time at least 30 days in advance. Anything last minute is purely at the discretion of management.
 
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