Ameriflight

Roger Roger said:
So in other words, pay has dropped about 20% over the last 10 years.
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Yup.

I turned down a EMB-120 captain slot because of their lack of pay.

A 3rd year Bro CA makes $46,300 at AMF with no Per diem (unless TDY)

A 3rd year FO at Skywest can make $37-43k before per diem.
 
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ppragman said:
I mean to say that you're cool with them going after people for skipping out on training contracts but are upset about bonuses instead of raises? I dunno I tend to think they're both unconscionable ways for a company to behave.
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No I am not cool with people skipping out on training contracts, not sure how I gave that impression.
 
Do most of you HWD based AMF guys live in East Bay somewhere? What is the reality of being able to live in Santa Cruz and commute to HWD 5 days a week, is it crazy? Should I get a motorcycle and cut through all the infamous slow norcal drivers? I'm trying to decide between SKW or AMF in a few months... thanks!
 
goldennixter said:
Do most of you HWD based AMF guys live in East Bay somewhere? What is the reality of being able to live in Santa Cruz and commute to HWD 5 days a week, is it crazy? Should I get a motorcycle and cut through all the infamous slow norcal drivers? I'm trying to decide between SKW or AMF in a few months... thanks!
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GO TO SKYWEST!! With the current pay structure and new regs concerning PIC requirements for 121 cpts AMF no longer makes sense........and HWD is the worst base at AMF.
 
goldennixter said:
Do most of you HWD based AMF guys live in East Bay somewhere? What is the reality of being able to live in Santa Cruz and commute to HWD 5 days a week, is it crazy? Should I get a motorcycle and cut through all the infamous slow norcal drivers? I'm trying to decide between SKW or AMF in a few months... thanks!
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Impossible to commute, don't even consider it. With the schedule you will have, adding an hour commute each way would kill you. HWD is a horrible base, losing runs, no management at the moment, very few turbine runs and the guys that are on the turbine runs are most likely lifers. If they aren't lifers, they are waiting for Southwest to call them, so lifers...

Your QOL will be much better, your pay will even out after a year, you will be flying much better equipment, better maintained, newer, more advanced/relevant equipment and it puts you right into the 121 world if you go Skywest. AMF was a great choice when the airlines were furloughing like crazy, not hiring etc. When a company doesn't give its employees in over 5 years any sort of pay raise (to meet industry standards because is well below) yet offers hiring bonuses to new hires, that should tell you how much they care about their employees.
 
Cpt Cook said:
GO TO SKYWEST!! With the current pay structure and new regs concerning PIC requirements for 121 cpts AMF no longer makes sense........and HWD is the worst base at AMF.
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Pretty much.

Inverted said:
Impossible to commute, don't even consider it. With the schedule you will have, adding an hour commute each way would kill you. HWD is a horrible base, losing runs, no management at the moment, very few turbine runs and the guys that are on the turbine runs are most likely lifers. If they aren't lifers, they are waiting for Southwest to call them, so lifers...

Your QOL will be much better, your pay will even out after a year, you will be flying much better equipment, better maintained, newer, more advanced/relevant equipment and it puts you right into the 121 world if you go Skywest. AMF was a great choice when the airlines were furloughing like crazy, not hiring etc. When a company doesn't give its employees in over 5 years any sort of pay raise (to meet industry standards because is well below) yet offers hiring bonuses to new hires, that should tell you how much they care about their employees.
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Exactly. A very high percentage of AMF pilots that I flew with ended up a Skywest (or other regionals) after a couple of years. Unless you're short of the minimums, why forfeit 2 years of seniority/pay/QOL at place that you'll most likely end up at anyway?

Damn near every ex-AMFer that I know (myself included) at Skywest and Horizon right now all say the same thing: Why didn't I do this sooner?

You want to fly airplanes for a living? It's all pretty much the same (especially at AMF) thing day in and day out. So why not fly something that quieter, more comfortable, pays better and goes to more locations? Only reason to go to AMF now is to fill the gap between the 135 mins and the regional mins.
 
Bypassing a freight position may not be right for every single person, with that statement here is my .02...

I had and still have no career aspirations to go 121, looking at the type of flying I thought it would be close to the worst thing I could personally do. My personal career goals and track were always to go to the corporate side of the business and be more involved in the day to day operations of an aircraft and be able to know the people on board on a first name basis. For that career track a good 135 freight company is more of a necessary spot to stop at, get into a type rated plane and build some good experience.

My time at AMF (a very long time) has pretty much thrown me the worst weather I could possibly see by myself, and now that I am in the charter side of the business I can say in the almost 2 years I have been here that I have yet to see anything while carrying passengers that I haven't gotten the chance to see a few times by myself first.

The biggest thing is to know what career path you want to take, get as much experience on the way to joining up with that said path that will make you a well rounded individual.
 
spbrian said:
Bypassing a freight position may not be right for every single person, with that statement here is my .02...

I had and still have no career aspirations to go 121,...
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I completely understand your position because I used to feel the exact same way. Not trying to change your mind or anything, but let me offer some personal insight:

I can count on 1 hand the number of pilots I know that have landed the corporate job that pays them exceptionally well and offers some semblance of stability. Every other corporate pilot I know has gone through the feast and famine. It really doesn't take much for a corporate flight departments to drop most of their pilots as soon as the economy hiccups or worse. When I flew corporate, one of our owners came within an inch of his life after a ski accident in Aspen. The whole flight department held their breath waiting to see what would happen. The economy tanked shortly after and most of us were on the street anyway.

Now of course the 121 world has its instability, but from what I have personally seen, the aggregate of money, and job and schedule stability is much higher than the corporate world. But I understand how people want to reach for that dream job and skip the potential suffering of the regionals.
 
Cal Goat said:
I completely understand your position because I used to feel the exact same way. Not trying to change your mind or anything, but let me offer some personal insight:

I can count on 1 hand the number of pilots I know that have landed the corporate job that pays them exceptionally well and offers some semblance of stability. Every other corporate pilot I know has gone through the feast and famine. It really doesn't take much for a corporate flight departments to drop most of their pilots as soon as the economy hiccups or worse. When I flew corporate, one of our owners came within an inch of his life after a ski accident in Aspen. The whole flight department held their breath waiting to see what would happen. The economy tanked shortly after and most of us were on the street anyway.

Now of course the 121 world has its instability, but from what I have personally seen, the aggregate of money, and job and schedule stability is much higher than the corporate world. But I understand how people want to reach for that dream job and skip the potential suffering of the regionals.
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@spbrian has done pretty well for himself where he is...
Just as the 121 side is seeing a shortage, so is the other sides of the industry. With that being said here will be plenty of decent gigs in corporate aviation for the foreseeable future. Add on top of that...most 135 and corporate operators require an ATP. The new rules make it more difficult to get. This makes it even more difficult to get onto that side of the industry which will increase pay even further.
 
KLB said:
@spbrian has done pretty well for himself where he is...
Just as the 121 side is seeing a shortage, so is the other sides of the industry. With that being said here will be plenty of decent gigs in corporate aviation for the foreseeable future. Add on top of that...most 135 and corporate operators require an ATP. The new rules make it more difficult to get. This makes it even more difficult to get onto that side of the industry which will increase pay even further.
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Yes, the ATP is going to get significantly harder to get, but I also don't see Ameriflight setting up a program to allow people to get the ATP once it changes, they have no reason to do so.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Yes, the ATP is going to get significantly harder to get, but I also don't see Ameriflight setting up a program to allow people to get the ATP once it changes, they have no reason to do so.
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It would be an easy recruitment tool if they did set it up. That's one idea I failed to throw Sheri's way before I left. Not all pilots want to be 121. Having a way to get your ATP will be vital going forward.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
And that exactly proves what's wrong with the whole setup. They focus more on recruiting and drawing new people in versus keeping the people they have.
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That's kind of the nature of that type of flying. They expect people to leave there at some point. As does regional airlines. What needs to be worked on is getting more longevity out of the people that are there. I agree that the pay needs to be increased. But I wouldn't expect that anyone wants to retire a line pilot at AMF. Four to six years is a number they should be shooting for IMHO. Increase pay and QOL enough to reach that point and that should be good enough.
 
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Totally forgot about the new ATP rules in all of this. Makes AMF even less appealing. Getting my ATP with my Metro type was about the only benefit I got from working there.

I'm not saying amf is a bad place to work. I had probably one of the better experiences being based at one of the better bases. If it's a choice between AMF HWD and Skywest, Skywest wins every time.
 
KLB said:
@spbrian has done pretty well for himself where he is...
Just as the 121 side is seeing a shortage, so is the other sides of the industry. With that being said here will be plenty of decent gigs in corporate aviation for the foreseeable future. Add on top of that...most 135 and corporate operators require an ATP. The new rules make it more difficult to get. This makes it even more difficult to get onto that side of the industry which will increase pay even further.
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AMF doesn't have any infrastructure to put in place to get guys an ATP, to steer them away from 121. 121 training programs will satisfy the new requirements from what I understand. That is what I worry about for the future of AMF. It seems to be that when AMF is doing well (hiring and employment number wise), the rest of the industry is in shambles. So do they just wait for the nest burst and open the flood gates, or do they restructure to make AMF a viable place to go by comparison?
 
KLB said:
It would be an easy recruitment tool if they did set it up. That's one idea I failed to throw Sheri's way before I left. Not all pilots want to be 121. Having a way to get your ATP will be vital going forward.
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Totally agree. Now if the industry as a whole changes, meaning that cookie cutter pilot-making operations will get guys the requirements to be ATP eligible when they meet the required hours, it will be a non issue. But that isn't in place yet, and even if it was put in place today, you are talking a 2-5 year lag before you see the benefits of that hitting the industry.
 
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