z987k
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say it's working for them. At least not to what I would call an acceptable standard.I know. That my point.
Seems to be working for foreign airlines. So if US carriers get desperate enough....why not?
I wouldn't say it's working for them. At least not to what I would call an acceptable standard.I know. That my point.
Seems to be working for foreign airlines. So if US carriers get desperate enough....why not?
It seems to be becoming the standard. Then they are "owned" by their employer/airline basically for ever.I wouldn't say it's working for them. At least not to what I would call an acceptable standard.
The reason it's not working is because the product of that system is terrible.It seems to be becoming the standard. Then they are "owned" by their employer/airline basically for ever.
I'm not saying its a good idea, or that it will happen. But the current state of 121 aviation is certainly vulnerable to falling into that cycle. A regional sends a 300 hr pilot to ameriflight, pays for it all, pays a salary during, straight to the right seat of JET afterwards. All in exchange for a "training" contract of say...5 years of low pay and commuting. You leave before said contract expires and you owe a prorated amount of "training" costs.
91 and 135 companies already do similar deals with type ratings and even basic "indoc" training. What's to stop the airlines?
Unfortunately, the hope of better QOL and pay at regionals would diminish if this were to take place.
Just my $0.02.
I don't think the airlines were experiencing a "pilot shortage" in 08.
You're right...probably wont work. But things could get very interesting here soon. And airlines will get creative.
I agree, terrible product! But it's terrible due to many more reasons than just using 135 cargo to build SIC time. It's terrible due to the initial training and other factors.The reason it's not working is because the product of that system is terrible.
Under no reasonable standard of competency is the program successful.
This will be a bigger issue than retirements (65) in my opinion. If a pilot instructs to say...1250tt, then takes a 135 PIC or corporate SIC gig for decent pay, why would they leave for $22k?The regionals were taking low timers back then. SJS was also a big thing. Now, pilots have 1500 hours to decide if they are okay making $22k a year or if they are more encouraged at finding other jobs away from 121. Its seems many are staying put instructing or looking elsewhere.
This will be a bigger issue than retirements (65) in my opinion. If a pilot instructs to say...1250tt, then takes a 135 PIC or corporate SIC gig for decent pay, why would they leave for $22k?
I agree pay needs to increase. But airlines are unpredictably "predictable" in a sense. Expect them to get creative BEFORE raising pay.
Wait, wait, wait...so things are bad at Republic?
http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Ex-Republic-Airlines-pilot-pleads-guilty-to-threat-5222132.php
I mean creative in the since of doing what republic is doing. In their email to their pilots they reference the 1500hr rule several times and even go as far as giving a "hypothetical" scenario involving reducing the faa requirements to 500hrs.I honestly dont see any way they can get creative to entice pilots who have the required qualifications. They tried the signing bonus, assuming that would do the trick. They'd have to be complete idiots to think the average, well informed 1500 hour pilot would buy into anything they try to spin as an incentive without increasing the pay rates. It would actually be a little insulting to those pilots to see yet another "incentive" to work at XYZ Airlines.
I mean creative in the since of doing what republic is doing. In their email to their pilots they reference the 1500hr rule several times and even go as far as giving a "hypothetical" scenario involving reducing the faa requirements to 500hrs.
They will be creative and try to pressure congress and the faa to reduce the 1500hrs.
They'll get a 250hr wonder to go on TV and talk about all the schooling he's done and how he deserves a 737, but now because of the big bad government, he can't do it tomorrow.If the airlines are going to spin the pilot shortage on the public, than I sure as heck hope the pilots spin any attempt to reduce the 1500hr rule as a serious impact to safety.
It's also terrible because you're not building any skills by acting as ballast.I agree, terrible product! But it's terrible due to many more reasons than just using 135 cargo to build SIC time. It's terrible due to the initial training and other factors.
If US carriers were to do this (not saying they will) then the regulations and requirements could produce a much higher quality product.
Just because Ford produces a poor product, doesn't mean other auto makers SHOULD NOT use the assembly line.
At least you would be visualizing and participating in all kinds of weather and different approaches. Instead of shooting the same 4-6 approaches locally every day for 2 years as an instructor. Or acting as ballast while your student does touch and goes for 2 hours.It's also terrible because you're not building any skills by acting as ballast.
They'll get a 250hr wonder to go on TV and talk about all the schooling he's done and how he deserves a 737, but now because of the big bad government, he can't do it tomorrow.
There is something to be said for being a CFI. You learn a lot more than just how to sit there. You are reinforcing the fundamentals that will last you the rest of your career. You are giving yourself an incredibly strong foundation of the basic stick and rudder skills that might have saved the Colgan crew and all their passengers.
Or acting as ballast while your student does touch and goes for 2 hours.