Update on Asiana firetruck casualty(video)

Unless nothing to mark it with at the time; but dealing with a dead body (assumed at the time) isn't a priority. However if someone was outside the vehicle and next to the "body" already, why a cursory quick check couldn't have been made....not a detailed check, mind you, but a quick one......would be interesting to know. Or maybe one was made, and based on the initial look, the assumption it was a deceased was made.

My neighbor had the local volunteer fire department knock over his chimney with their ladder. It fell through the roof and crashed into his living room, narrowly missing crushing two people. Now, I kinda expect that sorta thing from the amped-up, overly eager local volunteer FD. But trained, highly paid professional firefighters? Identifying a body, not assessing whether or not is was living or in need of help, and then rolling a couple of rigs over it? I don't expect that. In fact, it frightens me. I understand that people make mistakes, but this seems a pretty egregious mistake. And I understand that this was a dynamic environment, but that's sort of the point of all the training, hm? Especially given that the body was clearly identified early on. To ignore (at least to the extent of not performing a basic assessment) seems highly unorthodox. And even if they had identified it as dead, it would've take a few seconds to pull it out of the way or place it in a vehicle. I wasn't there, so I'm not judging. But based on the evidence that is currently available, something doesn't smell right to me about how this was handled.
 
Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake. Especially when people are fighting a situation that could turn into a Korean bbq any second.

As a general rule, in my experience it's a bad idea to second-guess troops on the ground—though it's become the thing to do. What can and should be addressed is the applicable training and procedures, but in any stressful situation people will make mistakes.

I dunno. I don't get the need to name, blame, shame and prosecute as many people as possible. Perhaps other lives would have been lost if the time had been taken to do something about the victim in question. I have no way of knowing, and those that do will investigate as appropriate... but people with presumably no more information and knowledge than I possess seem to be jumping to conclusions about this whole thing.

-Fox
 
Especially when people are fighting a situation that could turn into a Korean bbq any second.
images
 
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Saw this update today on training changes and Asiana:

http://www.voanews.com/content/asiana-adopts-new-pilot-training/1851905.html

"Executives of South Korea's Asiana Airlines say they're altering its pilot training program to encourage communication among senior managers and subordinates, after a July plane crash in San Francisco that killed three people and injured dozens.

A U.S. hearing into the crash revealed one of the pilots said he did not feel he had the authority to abort a low-speed landing as individuals at a "higher level" had to make that decision, Reuters reported.

"It's a reality that within our country there is a leaning toward a patriarchal culture and many pilots work and fly within the strict military order," Asiana's chief executive, Kim Soo-cheon, said Monday at a press conference in Seoul, Reuters reported.

Kim's comments Monday are his first public statements about Asiana's corporate culture since the Boeing 777 crash-landed on a San Francisco International Airport runway and injured about 180 people.

The changes at Asiana, South Korea's second-largest carrier, follow a July 9 CNBC.com article that outlined South Korea's aviation industry, which already had faced skepticism about its safety since a few deadly crashes beginning in the 1980s.

The CNBC.com article detailed Korea's cockpit culture and aviation training that stresses a deference to seniority, which can make it challenging for younger employees to speak up in workplaces without repercussions. Many Korean commercial pilots also are air force veterans, who have been trained in a military culture that again emphasizes hierarchy. Young South Korean men must serve mandatory military service.

Greenberg, also a 28-year Delta Air Lines veteran, served as executive vice president ofoperations for five years at another Korean airline, Korean Air—beginning in 2000 after a series of fatal Korean Air flights. That incident's cockpit culture was detailed in Malcolm Gladwell's book, "Outliers."

"It's not just Asian culture. Under any country's laws, the carrier has the responsibility to ensure the highest level of safety to the passenger," Greenberg said. Effective training that's compatible with cultures is key, he said. "I didn't change the Korean culture. I figured out a way to present information that's compatible with their culture," Greenberg said.

Since September,Asiana has been strengthening its pilot training including out-of-office gatherings and the recommendation that all members of the flight crew address each other with honorifics while working, regardless of rank, Asiana CEO Kim said. Traditionally in Korean culture, an honorific form of communication—which requires more words and is more oblique—often is used for someone older or who holds a more senior position."
 
Saw this update today on training changes and Asiana:

http://www.voanews.com/content/asiana-adopts-new-pilot-training/1851905.html

"Executives of South Korea's Asiana Airlines say they're altering its pilot training program to encourage communication among senior managers and subordinates, after a July plane crash in San Francisco that killed three people and injured dozens.

A U.S. hearing into the crash revealed one of the pilots said he did not feel he had the authority to abort a low-speed landing as individuals at a "higher level" had to make that decision, Reuters reported.

"It's a reality that within our country there is a leaning toward a patriarchal culture and many pilots work and fly within the strict military order," Asiana's chief executive, Kim Soo-cheon, said Monday at a press conference in Seoul, Reuters reported.

Kim's comments Monday are his first public statements about Asiana's corporate culture since the Boeing 777 crash-landed on a San Francisco International Airport runway and injured about 180 people.

The changes at Asiana, South Korea's second-largest carrier, follow a July 9 CNBC.com article that outlined South Korea's aviation industry, which already had faced skepticism about its safety since a few deadly crashes beginning in the 1980s.

The CNBC.com article detailed Korea's cockpit culture and aviation training that stresses a deference to seniority, which can make it challenging for younger employees to speak up in workplaces without repercussions. Many Korean commercial pilots also are air force veterans, who have been trained in a military culture that again emphasizes hierarchy. Young South Korean men must serve mandatory military service.

Greenberg, also a 28-year Delta Air Lines veteran, served as executive vice president ofoperations for five years at another Korean airline, Korean Air—beginning in 2000 after a series of fatal Korean Air flights. That incident's cockpit culture was detailed in Malcolm Gladwell's book, "Outliers."

"It's not just Asian culture. Under any country's laws, the carrier has the responsibility to ensure the highest level of safety to the passenger," Greenberg said. Effective training that's compatible with cultures is key, he said. "I didn't change the Korean culture. I figured out a way to present information that's compatible with their culture," Greenberg said.

Since September,Asiana has been strengthening its pilot training including out-of-office gatherings and the recommendation that all members of the flight crew address each other with honorifics while working, regardless of rank, Asiana CEO Kim said. Traditionally in Korean culture, an honorific form of communication—which requires more words and is more oblique—often is used for someone older or who holds a more senior position."

The problem Gerry, is this isn't anything new, any secret, or any kind of "ah-ha!" moment, like they're seemingly trying to make it sound like. Even back to the KAL 801 crash, this has been a known issue.
 
I understand that and I thought it was interesting that are trying to make it seem as though this is something they are making a big deal out of addressing, "publicly". Seems a bit more of a p.r. stunt to me.

This article is from last year from China Daily: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/kindle/2013-07/09/content_16749941.htm

Their stock kinda hit a dump after the crash ans has only slowly been recovering the last two months.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/charts/charts.asp?ticker=020560:KS
 
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I understand that and I thought it was interesting that are trying to make it seem as though this is something they are making a big deal out of addressing, "publicly". Seems a bit more of a p.r. stunt to me.

Oh I know you get that easily; I'm just marvelling at the seeming PR stunt "a-ha!!" aspect of it too.
 
I actually don't know what is more stupid......the fact that 80 some pax are trying to sue Boeing (frankly, they should be grateful that their planes are built like tanks and that the aircraft held together as well as it did) or this little p.r. stunt. I haven't been able to find how many pax have filed a suit against Asiana, but it's ridiculous that they are trying to sue Boeing.

I haven't read/heard any further news about the issues with firefighters and the city either.
 
I actually don't know what is more stupid......the fact that 80 some pax are trying to sue Boeing (frankly, they should be grateful that their planes are built like tanks and that the aircraft held together as well as it did) or this little p.r. stunt. I haven't been able to find how many pax have filed a suit against Asiana, but it's ridiculous that they are trying to sue Boeing.

Agree. Stupid as all get up to sue Boeing. But they are a deep pocket, even if they had nothing to do with the accident other than it being one of their aircraft.

I haven't read/heard any further news about the issues with firefighters and the city either.

On a semi-related note, any word on whether OCFA was retained at KSNA, or whether private contract ARFF was voted in?
 
As far as I know (the last time I checked) they haven't made any changes yet. The big talk of accepting outside bids was last Summer and then again in the Fall.
 
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