Update on Asiana firetruck casualty(video)

[Beep]

Frankly, I have thought the same thing. Pax running all over the place, some stumbling, some may fall, some standing near the plane trying to find other friends/family members, some disoriented, many of them carrying their carry-ons, shopping bags, totes, huge ass purses and what not.




Look at some of the crap they dragged down the chutes with them....good lord! I mean, what the hell is wrong with people???

Here's a woman who has unzipped her carry-on and is rummaging around through it. What could you possibly need at that moment? A candy bar?

It's like trying to corral a herd of drunken cats. They are in several areas all over the field.

Here's a woman with a huge carry-on.....she isn't even running. Meh, the plane just crashed and is on fire, it might explode, but at least I've got my clean underwear with me and I don't want to risk breaking a strap on my sandals.

Here, people are standing around, going in one direction, others going in the opposite direction, texting on their phones while still near the BURNING plane, yikes!!!

Another guy with a huge ass carry-on

Here, you can clearly see the pull up handles of two more carry-ons and a guy with a ton of camera equipment around his neck

This one guy is wearing the largest backpack I have ever seen in my life. Other pax are struggling at the bottom of the slide to pick up their shopping bags and misc. crap. One idiot is standing off to the left taking a photo with his cell phone.

Here are people just milling around and watching the aircraft burn and some strolling away like they're in Central Park on a Sunday outing.

People just never seem to amaze me in how completely stupid they are.

Or... This could just be a good expample of how different people act when in shock.

 

[Hopeful Pilot]

Or... This could just be a good expample of how different people act when in shock.

I don't know what I would do in a plane crash exactly, but I will tell you what I wouldn't do and that is get my carry on baggage.

 

[derg]

I seriously wonder how an A330 would have handled that.

Hey now!

 

[ChasenSFO]

Hey now!

 

[A Life Aloft]

Or... This could just be a good expample of how different people act when in shock.

If you have the wherewithal to grab your carry-on out of an overhead bin, your purse, your shopping bags/totes, stop to take cell pics and are texting while walking away from a plane crash, you are not in shock. You are an idiot.

From one observation which spurned an article on the subject that I read: "Images from the crash landing in San Francisco International Airport showed many passengers fleeing the wreckage with luggage and iPads --even duty-free alcohol. According to witnesses, some of the carry-on luggage was large enough that it had to be stowed in the overhead bins --and was likely pulled down as the plane burned. One passenger, Jang Hyung Lee, told the New York Times, “It wasn’t really chaos; people actually took their hand carriers." wth?

They clogged up the slides on the plane by doing this, endangered themselves and others on the slides, took up valuable time on the slides retrieving their belongings and kept more pax on and near a burning plane.

There are clearly people who are not in shock and if they were not so concerned with bringing their belongings with them, they could at least attempt to aid those pax who may be in shock or injured.

"One passenger, Eugene Anthony Rah, recalled how Asiana Airlines air hostess Kim Ji-yeon stood out to him as "she was only slight but carrying people piggyback from the plane if they were unable to walk." So many of these people would rather take their luggage with them, than to help carry a fellow passenger? In the pics I reviewed, I saw several young men who looked in shape to me, all carrying luggage and helping no one.

One man interviewed in the New York Times stated that "he grabbed his bags and then his child". In that order. Seriously?

Mr Xu, a production manager for a Chinese shopping website, wrote on the Chinese blogging site Sina Weibo that he stood and grabbed his carry-on bags before leaving the plane. How about listening to the directions of the crew?

I read this in another article in Forbes: "Another shot of passengers resting beside an ambulance reveals nearly every single one carried off a backpack or handbag before leaving the plane.

John Goglia, an airline safety expert and former member of the National Transportation Safety Board, stated in a Forbes article, "that he was shocked to see all of the passengers with suitcases. He shuddered to think how much extra time it took for them to retrieve their luggage."

 

[Beep]

If you have the wherewithal to grab your carry-on out of an overhead bin, your purse, your shopping bags/totes, stop to take cell pics and are texting while walking away from a plane crash, you are not in shock. You are an idiot.

From one observation which spurned an article on the subject that I read: "Images from the crash landing in San Francisco International Airport showed many passengers fleeing the wreckage with luggage and iPads --even duty-free alcohol. According to witnesses, some of the carry-on luggage was large enough that it had to be stowed in the overhead bins --and was likely pulled down as the plane burned. One passenger, Jang Hyung Lee, told the New York Times, “It wasn’t really chaos; people actually took their hand carriers." wth?

They clogged up the slides on the plane by doing this, endangered themselves and others on the slides, took up valuable time on the slides retrieving their belongings and kept more pax on and near a burning plane.

There are clearly people who are not in shock and if they were not so concerned with bringing their belongings with them, they could at least attempt to aid those pax who may be in shock or injured.

"One passenger, Eugene Anthony Rah, recalled how Asiana Airlines air hostess Kim Ji-yeon stood out to him as "she was only slight but carrying people piggyback from the plane if they were unable to walk." So many of these people would rather take their luggage with them, than to help carry a fellow passenger? In the pics I reviewed, I saw several young men who looked in shape to me, all carrying luggage and helping no one.

One man interviewed in the New York Times stated that "he grabbed his bags and then his child". In that order. Seriously?

Mr Xu, a production manager for a Chinese shopping website, wrote on the Chinese blogging site Sina Weibo that he stood and grabbed his carry-on bags before leaving the plane. How about listening to the directions of the crew?

I read this in another article in Forbes: "Another shot of passengers resting beside an ambulance reveals nearly every single one carried off a backpack or handbag before leaving the plane.

John Goglia, an airline safety expert and former member of the National Transportation Safety Board, stated in a Forbes article, "that he was shocked to see all of the passengers with suitcases. He shuddered to think how much extra time it took for them to retrieve their luggage."

I think you misunderstood what I meant. I didn't say it was a good decision to grab those items during the evacuation, rather that being in shock may explain some of the behaviors that you described as " stupid " at that particular point in time.

 

[sweeps]

Anyone else think that more detailed instructions could be added to the preflight briefing? Such as, leave your crap where it is, and get far away from the airplane in a timely manner after exiting? I know we all think of this stuff as pilots but sometimes I just wonder if the average joe just doesn't get it and needs a little extra emphasis on what to do/not do. Also a reminder to keep important stuff like wallets, passports, phones and car keys in your pockets when taking off and landing so at least you're left with something useful if all your other crap burns. I also almost always wear sandals when I fly, but shoes would probably be a better idea.

 

[exneophyte]

Anyone else think that more detailed instructions could be added to the preflight briefing? Such as, leave your crap where it is, and get far away from the airplane in a timely manner after exiting? I know we all think of this stuff as pilots but sometimes I just wonder if the average joe just doesn't get it and needs a little extra emphasis on what to do/not do. Also a reminder to keep important stuff like wallets, passports, phones and car keys in your pockets when taking off and landing so at least you're left with something useful if all your other crap burns. I also almost always wear sandals when I fly, but shoes would probably be a better idea.

Next time you are in the cabin, try to survey the number of passengers who are actually listening and watching the safety briefing. It's miniscule. Add what you want to the briefing, but the key is if the passengers are listening.

 

[ctab5060X]

Anyone else think that more detailed instructions could be added to the preflight briefing? Such as, leave your crap where it is, and get far away from the airplane in a timely manner after exiting?.

Something else for the flying public to ignore before flight?

As a crew member, I try and pay attention and set a good example when I ride in the back of the plane. It is amazing how many people are simply not paying attention to the flight attendants or anything else around them. With the relaxation of the electronic devices, I see people sitting at the gate that board, fly to their destination, and deplane without ever taking off their headphones (and the music is loud enough I can hear it from several feet away).

All people care about these days is how cheap is my ticket...

 

[sweeps]

Next time you are in the cabin, try to survey the number of passengers who are actually listening and watching the safety briefing. It's miniscule. Add what you want to the briefing, but the key is if the passengers are listening.

Something else for the flying public to ignore before flight?

As a crew member, I try and pay attention and set a good example when I ride in the back of the plane. It is amazing how many people are simply not paying attention to the flight attendants or anything else around them. With the relaxation of the electronic devices, I see people sitting at the gate that board, fly to their destination, and deplane without ever taking off their headphones (and the music is loud enough I can hear it from several feet away).

All people care about these days is how cheap is my ticket...

Maybe they should show crash videos and get people paying attention haha. Yeah it is true that no one seems to care, maybe electronic devices should have been disallowed from jet bridge to after take off, instead of letting people use them even more lol. I guess scaring people with the seriousness of what could happen is bad for the bottom line, so things will continue as they were. Oh well...

 

[exneophyte]

I'm totally speculating here because I wasn't on the flight, but we jump to the conclusion that people brought out their own luggage. The roller bags had to be in an overhead bin. In the chaos, I don't know if someone would actually take the time to remove their luggage from the overhead bin...they probably would.

I've also seen the bins open on a moderately hard landing. I can't say how I'd act if I were in an accident of this nature, but given the impact if I were emergency evacuating and there were a piece of luggage in my way or in my lap, I believe I would take it with me to throw it out of the plane or go down the slide with it so it doesn't impede the people after me. I wouldn't go out of my way to grab that luggage, but we don't know what happened.

 

[ctab5060X]

Maybe they should show crash videos and get people paying attention haha. <snip> I guess scaring people with the seriousness of what could happen is bad for the bottom line, so things will continue as they were. Oh well...

Until I started flying for a smaller carrier where our interactions with the passengers is 10x that of my previous gig, I never realized just how many people that boarded our airplanes were either first time flyers or extremely timid about getting into a pressurized aluminum tube and going fast.

The last thing we want to do is to scare these people any more than they already are of flying.

 

[A Life Aloft]

I'm totally speculating here because I wasn't on the flight, but we jump to the conclusion that people brought out their own luggage. The roller bags had to be in an overhead bin. In the chaos, I don't know if someone would actually take the time to remove their luggage from the overhead bin...they probably would.

I've also seen the bins open on a moderately hard landing. I can't say how I'd act if I were in an accident of this nature, but given the impact if I were emergency evacuating and there were a piece of luggage in my way or in my lap, I believe I would take it with me to throw it out of the plane or go down the slide with it so it doesn't impede the people after me. I wouldn't go out of my way to grab that luggage, but we don't know what happened.

Except I doubt they were dragging other people's luggage, shopping bags, totes, huge purses- wearing someone else's backpack etc., with them along and across the field and then parking them next to where they wound up sitting or standing. You also don't see misc bags strewn about the area as if they were just pitched out the doors either. When interviewed, the pax readily talked about grabbing their belongings and taking them with them.

You can get in the aisle briefly, let people who are in the inside seats out while you lift or hold luggage out of the way and then just toss it on the now vacant seats. The better scenario is if you and other pax can just stand up, then you can just place what ever items that may have fallen on you or are in the aisles and is too large to navigate over, onto your seats and move out. Blankets and pillows that may fall out of bins, ignore them. Step on/over them. If you just try to pitch luggage out of the plane, you run the risk of holding up the evacuation by moving slower while carrying the items and you might hit someone below on the field with a piece of luggage that you toss out or cause someone to fall/trip over it as it is strewn about the field. You may also loose your grip on the item and send it shooting down the slide to pax at the bottom, knocking them over and/or injuring them. Rescue workers also have enough debris on the field to dodge as it is.

Only two things will ever possibly save you in surviving a crash. The first, is surviving the crash itself and the second is getting off and away from the plane as quickly as possible. Every second that a pax takes to think about what to do, or clogs the aisle, or an exit or a slide because of taking or looking for luggage or any belongings delays other pax and can perhaps cost them their lives. Never go against the flow of departing pax either. No one should let anyone try to access the bins or fish around under their seats for items. You certainly can't run over other people but you can't allow them to dawdle either. Move their asses along. People don't seem to realize that you need to get one pax per second out of each exit that is available in order to ensure that you get those who can "move", off of the plane and save their lives. You screw around for ten seconds and ten people are delayed. Don't try to sit down to go down the slide, just jump out of the door feet first (keeping your legs and arms together) and onto the slide. Then get immediately up and run like a banshee.

 

[exneophyte]

Except I doubt they were dragging other people's luggage, shopping bags, totes, huge purses- wearing someone else's backpack etc., with them along the field and then parking them next to where they wound up sitting or standing. You also don't see misc bags strewn about the area as if they were just pitched out the doors either. When interviewed, the pax readily talked about grabbing their belongings and taking them with them.

You can get in the aisle briefly, let people who are in the inside seats out while you lift or hold luggage out of the way and then just toss it on the now vacant seats. Blankets and pillows that may fall out of bins, ignore them. Step on/over them. If you just try to pitch luggage out of the plane, you run the risk of holding up the evacuation by moving slower while carrying the items and you might hit someone below on the field with a piece of luggage that you toss out or cause someone to fall/trip over it as it is strewn about the field. Rescue workers also have enough debris on the field to dodge as it is.

Only two things will ever possibly save you in surviving a crash. The first, is surviving the crash itself and the second is getting off and away from the plane as quickly as possible. Every second that a pax takes to think about what to do, or clogs the aisle, or an exit or a slide because of taking or looking for luggage or any belongings delays other pax and can perhaps cost them their lives. Never go against the flow of departing pax either. No one should let anyone try to access the bins or fish around under their seats for items. You certainly can't run over other people but you can't allow them to dawdle either. Move their asses along. people don't seem to realize that you need to get one pax per second out of each exit that is available in order to ensure that you get those who can "move" off the plane and save their lives. You screw around for ten seconds and ten people are delayed. Don't try to sit down to go down the slide, just jump out of the door feet first (keeping your legs and arms together) and onto the slide.

I wasn't aware that the interviewed passengers talked about taking their belongings with them. That is a big problem. I'm talking about evacuating an emergency situation where baggage has been strewn about the aircraft which I have to imagine it is given the strength of the overhead bins. It's likely smokey and dusty which limits visibility, but let's say there is a piece of baggage in the aisle, do I let the other 50 people after me trip over it too given the visibility? I can't predict how I'd act given a true emergency but I'd like to think I'd get that piece of luggage out of the way quickly instead of letting everyone else trip over it.

 

[A Life Aloft]

I wasn't aware that the interviewed passengers talked about taking their belongings with them. That is a big problem. I'm talking about evacuating an emergency situation where baggage has been strewn about the aircraft which I have to imagine it is given the strength of the overhead bins. It's likely smokey and dusty which limits visibility, but let's say there is a piece of baggage in the aisle, do I let the other 50 people after me trip over it too given the visibility? I can't predict how I'd act given a true emergency but I'd like to think I'd get that piece of luggage out of the way quickly instead of letting everyone else trip over it.

In post 25 above, I quoted some of the passenger's comments after the crash. One man, grabbed his bag before he took a hold of his child. If there is a large enough item blocking an aisle, you pick it up and toss it on an empty seat or on the floor space between a set of seats or wedged between the seat cushion and back of the seat in front of it, or where ever and keep hauling butt.

 

[exneophyte]

In post 25 above, I quoted some of the passenger's comments after the crash. One man, grabbed his bag before he took a hold of his child. If there is a large enough item blocking an aisle, you pick it up and toss it on an empty seat or on the floor space between a set of seats or wedged between the seat cushion and back of the seat in front of it, or where ever and keep hauling butt.

I'm not saying it's right. Do you have a solution for how you get passengers to listen given the safety average of the airlines? The "it can't happen to me" mode of thinking is prevalent.

 

[MikeD]

Only two things will ever possibly save you in surviving a crash. The first, is surviving the crash itself and the second is getting off and away from the plane as quickly as possible. Every second that a pax takes to think about what to do, or clogs the aisle, or an exit or a slide because of taking or looking for luggage or any belongings delays other pax and can perhaps cost them their lives. Never go against the flow of departing pax either. No one should let anyone try to access the bins or fish around under their seats for items. You certainly can't run over other people but you can't allow them to dawdle either. Move their asses along. People don't seem to realize that you need to get one pax per second out of each exit that is available in order to ensure that you get those who can "move", off of the plane and save their lives. You screw around for ten seconds and ten people are delayed. Don't try to sit down to go down the slide, just jump out of the door feet first (keeping your legs and arms together) and onto the slide.

Agree fully. Pax who are wasting time are not only doing the above that you write in terms of affecting themselves and other pax, but from my end, they're keeping me and my people from accomplishing certain critical tasks:

1. Dawdling around requires us to spend that much more time expending our foam/water on the exits and keeping the excape path open.

For the record, there are two main objectives the ARFF trucks are used for: using their onboard firefighting supplies to either keep an escape path open for pax able to flee, or keep a rescue path open for rescue crews to get in and get people. Fighting the rest of the aircraft fire isn't the prime priority, keeping the exits and areas around them clear of fire is the main priority (assuming the exits are in danger from the fire). That said, the faster the pax exit, the faster we can get in and perform rescue for those who can't exit, and the faster we can start using available firefighting agent to fight the rest of the aircraft fire (keeping in mind that most ARFF trucks only have 2-3 minutes of foam/water at full pump rate).

2. It's very rare that simulataneous interior firefighting operations and pax exiting can occur at the same time. There's just such limited entry/exit ways via doors, etc; that pax are normally emptying out of all of them, keeping fire crews from entering them with hoselines, etc. You can do one or the other, you can't generally do both on a normal passenger airplane. Too, the normal entry/exit doors can't be utilized for firefighters to enter due to the slides being in place; firefighters can't go up the slides, they have to place ground ladders or a platform fire truck driven in place to allow personnel entry to be made. A slide only gets in the way of this and either needs to be deflated or detached as quick as possible, and all able pax need to have been evacuated before doing that. As long as the slides are in place, the ability for rescuers to enter will be restricted or hampered to a very high degree. Faster the pax get out who can, the faster that rescuers can go in.

This was demonstrated very well in ARFF training. We had an old BAC-111 and a DC-8-51 that instructors and some civilians would sit in, with a water-vapor fog machine simulating smoke/fire inside. Be about 30 or so people total in the plane, either concentrated in one area or spread out. Different scenarios were briefed to the pax on what to do: exit quickly, exit slowly, try and take bags or not, have unconscious/injured persons or not, panic or not, using single or multiple exits, or any and all combinations of the aforementioned subjects. The results were indeed interesting on what combinations hampered our ability to fight fire, perform rescue, make entry, work through the aircraft, etc; and to what degree these various combinations or singular items affected those missions.

Pictured below, a USAF P-20 airfield ramp AFFF/Dry chemical truck "crash 13", modified to also be a so-called "platform" truck for rescues directly from the entry/exits of aircraft such as the 747, C-5, etc. While regular P-20s can be found at various AF bases, these specially modified ones are generally only found at "heavy" bases that operate large frame aircraft.

 

[A Life Aloft]

I'm not saying it's right. Do you have a solution for how you get passengers to listen given the safety average of the airlines? The "it can't happen to me" theory is prevalent.

Sadly, you can't. As much as people complain, limits on carry-ons may help. People don't even move their legs, feet and elbows out of the way when the FAs come down the aisle with a trolly. You'd have to have the Captain announce to the pax that the plane is not leaving the gate until the safety demo is done and and everyone pays attention or it will be repeated. lol The carriers would never stand for that. It takes a few seconds to determine where the exits are and which one you should go for while you are sitting in your seat before the plane departs. But people are fiddling with all the crap that they are dragging with them, setting up their laptops, tablets, i-pods, briefcases and whatever, heading to the lav, trying to shove over sized crap into the bins, bugging the FAs for pillows, blankets and a drink.....you name it. I once recommended to my former carrier, that a little safety card with pics and info could be attached to their envelope with their ticket and boarding pass and perhaps pax might read it in the terminal while waiting for their plane. I was told it was too expensive.

 

[exneophyte]

Agree fully. Pax who are wasting time are not only doing the above that you write in terms of affecting themselves and other pax, but from my end, they're keeping me and my people from accomplishing certain critical tasks:

1. Dawdling around requires us to spend that much more time expending our foam/water on the exits and keeping the excape path open.

For the record, there are two main objectives the ARFF trucks are used for: using their onboard firefighting supplies to either keep an escape path open for pax able to flee, or keep a rescue path open for rescue crews to get in and get people. Fighting the rest of the aircraft fire isn't the prime priority, keeping the exits and areas around them clear of fire is the main priority (assuming the exits are in danger from the fire). That said, the faster the pax exit, the faster we can get in and perform rescue for those who can't exit, and the faster we can start using available firefighting agent to fight the rest of the aircraft fire (keeping in mind that most ARFF trucks only have 2-3 minutes of foam/water at full pump rate).

2. It's very rare that simulataneous interior firefighting operations and pax exiting can occur at the same time. There's just such limited entry/exit ways via doors, etc; that pax are normally emptying out of all of them, keeping fire crews from entering them with hoselines, etc. You can do one or the other, you can't generally do both on a normal passenger airplane. Too, the normal entry/exit doors can't be utilized for firefighters to enter due to the slides being in place; firefighters can't go up the slides, they have to place ground ladders or a platform fire truck driven in place to allow personnel entry to be made. A slide only gets in the way of this and either needs to be deflated or detached as quick as possible, and all able pax need to have been evacuated before doing that. As long as the slides are in place, the ability for rescuers to enter will be restricted or hampered to a very high degree. Faster the pax get out who can, the faster that rescuers can go in.

This was demonstrated very well in ARFF training. We had an old BAC-111 and a DC-8-51 that instructors and some civilians would sit in, with a water-vapor fog machine simulating smoke/fire inside. Be about 30 or so people total in the plane, either concentrated in one area or spread out. Different scenarios were briefed to the pax on what to do: exit quickly, exit slowly, try and take bags or not, have unconscious/injured persons or not, panic or not, using single or multiple exits, or any and all combinations of the aforementioned subjects. The results were indeed interesting on what combinations hampered our ability to fight fire, perform rescue, make entry, work through the aircraft, etc; and to what degree these various combinations or singular items affected those missions.

Pictured below, a USAF P-20 airfield ramp AFFF/Dry chemical truck "crash 13", modified to also be a so-called "platform" truck for rescues directly from the entry/exits of aircraft such as the 747, C-5, etc. While regular P-20s can be found at various AF bases, these specially modified ones are generally only found at "heavy" bases that operate large frame aircraft.

View attachment 26509

Only have respect for @MikeD and can't say I recall a time I've disagreed with his knowledge. Ultimately, my concern is with what happens inside the aircraft and how it can be made better. It's easy to sit back and talk about what you would do given hypothetical situations given the chaos of any emergency situation. I sometimes play devils advocate regardless of my true beliefs to gain contrast into other perspectives.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Agree fully. Pax who are wasting time are not only doing the above that you write in terms of affecting themselves and other pax, but from my end, they're keeping me and my people from accomplishing certain critical tasks:

1. Dawdling around requires us to spend that much more time expending our foam/water on the exits and keeping the excape path open.

For the record, there are two main objectives the ARFF trucks are used for: using their onboard firefighting supplies to either keep an escape path open for pax able to flee, or keep a rescue path open for rescue crews to get in and get people. Fighting the rest of the aircraft fire isn't the prime priority, keeping the exits and areas around them clear of fire is the main priority (assuming the exits are in danger from the fire). That said, the faster the pax exit, the faster we can get in and perform rescue for those who can't exit, and the faster we can start using available firefighting agent to fight the rest of the aircraft fire (keeping in mind that most ARFF trucks only have 2-3 minutes of foam/water at full pump rate).

2. It's very rare that simulataneous interior firefighting operations and pax exiting can occur at the same time. There's just such limited entry/exit ways via doors, etc; that pax are normally emptying out of all of them, keeping fire crews from entering them with hoselines, etc. You can do one or the other, you can't generally do both on a normal passenger airplane. Too, the normal entry/exit doors can't be utilized for firefighters to enter due to the slides being in place; firefighters can't go up the slides, they have to place ground ladders or a platform fire truck driven in place to allow personnel entry to be made. A slide only gets in the way of this and either needs to be deflated or detached as quick as possible, and all able pax need to have been evacuated before doing that. As long as the slides are in place, the ability for rescuers to enter will be restricted or hampered to a very high degree. Faster the pax get out who can, the faster that rescuers can go in.

This was demonstrated very well in ARFF training. We had an old BAC-111 and a DC-8-51 that instructors and some civilians would sit in, with a water-vapor fog machine simulating smoke/fire inside. Be about 30 or so people total in the plane, either concentrated in one area or spread out. Different scenarios were briefed to the pax on what to do: exit quickly, exit slowly, try and take bags or not, have unconscious/injured persons or not, panic or not, using single or multiple exits, or any and all combinations of the aforementioned subjects. The results were indeed interesting on what combinations hampered our ability to fight fire, perform rescue, make entry, work through the aircraft, etc; and to what degree these various combinations or singular items affected those missions.

Pictured below, a USAF P-20 airfield ramp AFFF/Dry chemical truck "crash 13", modified to also be a so-called "platform" truck for rescues directly from the entry/exits of aircraft such as the 747, C-5, etc. While regular P-20s can be found at various AF bases, these specially modified ones are generally only found at "heavy" bases that operate large frame aircraft.

View attachment 26509

Really excellent points. This especially: 1. Dawdling around requires us to spend that much more time expending our foam/water on the exits and keeping the escape path open. Also your point 2.

It is much more difficult for rescue teams to enter the aircraft and work around the aircraft with all the huge and varied equipment that firefighters employ with pax scattered all over the place, meandering around and standing around or close to the plane. Get off the plane and haul ass away from the aircraft. Follow the lead of the FAs. Stay away from the path or area of rescue equipment and from the plane. If possible, head up wind to avoid smoke if there is a fire or a likely hood of one. You need to be a minimum of 500 feet away and really 1,000 feet is far better. If there is an explosion, you are toast.

This is very interesting:

"This was demonstrated very well in ARFF training. We had an old BAC-111 and a DC-8-51 that instructors and some civilians would sit in, with a water-vapor fog machine simulating smoke/fire inside. Be about 30 or so people total in the plane, either concentrated in one area or spread out. Different scenarios were briefed to the pax on what to do: exit quickly, exit slowly, try and take bags or not, have unconscious/injured persons or not, panic or not, using single or multiple exits, or any and all combinations of the aforementioned subjects. The results were indeed interesting on what combinations hampered our ability to fight fire, perform rescue, make entry, work through the aircraft, etc; and to what degree these various combinations or singular items affected those missions."

@MikeD When you have a chance, could you possibly expound upon the results/findings of this exercise? I think it's pretty brilliant scenario for training. I'd really like to know the results as I am sure others would as well.