Seggy
Well-Known Member
An Expressjet ERJ-145 isn't modern glass anyway. Go check out a Falcon 2000LX EASy cockpit...
That is also VERY true.
An Expressjet ERJ-145 isn't modern glass anyway. Go check out a Falcon 2000LX EASy cockpit...
I haven't personally seen anyone under the age of 30 struggle with the "transition". Even saying that, "transition", is funny to people that have typed more on a keyboard than have written letters on paper.@Polar742 was a check airman and all around bad ass at a very large regional when they were bringing on E-145s and E-170s. I know he did delivery and acceptance flight on those aircraft and trained a few hundred in that airplane. If anyone is qualified to speak on what it is like to make the transition from a round to glass cockpit it would be him.
Yes, the transition can be easy, glad it was for you, but some struggle on it. The requirement is the requirement. I don't necessarily agree with it, but no one asked me. Someone that has spent a lot of time in the training department of two airlines like Polar has probably has a much different view on it than we would, but I respect his view as he has seen the backgrounds (of round dial vs. glass) interact with the training regime more than I have.
Finally, the real richness in this thread is with @jhugz. It is always rich when he posts.
An Expressjet ERJ-145 isn't modern glass anyway. Go check out a Falcon 2000LX EASy cockpit...
An Expressjet ERJ-145 isn't modern glass anyway. Go check out a Falcon 2000LX EASy cockpit...
Meh, @jhugz flies Metro single pilot. He knows what he's doing. That plane doesn't put up with a dumbass. At any rate, I'd argue with anyone on here for hours, but beers on me if we ever meet up and jhugs is probably the same.@Polar742 was a check airman and all around bad ass at a very large regional when they were bringing on E-145s and E-170s. I know he did delivery and acceptance flight on those aircraft and trained a few hundred in that airplane. If anyone is qualified to speak on what it is like to make the transition from a round to glass cockpit it would be him.
Yes, the transition can be easy, glad it was for you, but some struggle on it. The requirement is the requirement. I don't necessarily agree with it, but no one asked me. Someone that has spent a lot of time in the training department of two airlines like Polar has probably has a much different view on it than we would, but I respect his view as he has seen the backgrounds (of round dial vs. glass) interact with the training regime more than I have.
Finally, the real richness in this thread is with @jhugz. It is always rich when he posts.
Perhaps that's why we're such loud mouths about the transition being a non-issue.
Not to go all out and throw on the AMF cheerleader outfit, but the guys that leave here know what the hell they're doing. I don't know a single person that's left here that has had trouble transferring into any other operation under the sun. Which is why I'm very fast to speak against the jet/glass/fms requirements. Because it really is a BS arguement after working at a place like this. How many ex-AMF guys have you seen struggle @Polar742? Not that Atlas/Polar has ever hired them in the first place...
I did and I re-state, not one single person from AMF pilot has had problems transitioning to another operation. So the argument is what exactly? They fly whatever it is that they're flying now just fine without flying that particular type of plane in another operation first.You realize AMF isn't the first operator of the Metro, right?
Re-read what I posted.
I did and I re-state, not one single person from AMF pilot has had problems transitioning to another operation. So the argument is what exactly? They fly whatever it is that they're flying now just fine without flying that particular type of plane in another operation first.
This isn't flying to the moon. Flying airplanes isn't hard and an airplane is an airplane is an airplane. Every single one of them will and will not do certain things and that is what training is for.
Let's get past your tprop moving up dogma.
For a minute, you're an instructor at AMF. Would you rather train a guy on the Metro that came out of a 1900 at SubAir, or a guy like me who has flown steam, but out of the last 14 out of the last 17 years has flown integrated glass?
I know who I'd choose.
What does the CFI turned RJ Pilot bring to the table:
This guy is a professional. He knows his GOM, OpSpecs, FAR/AIM and much more down cold. He knows the systems of his airplane down cold, but he's never seen the thing at the edge of the envelope. He's never estimated passenger bag weights by lifting them and hasn't filled out his own weight and balance since his flight school days. He's an excellent crewmember however, and efficiently works to get the flight done in a safe and timely matter. He's flown very nice equipment for some time, and is experienced operating FMS, Glass, and all the works. He's had lot's of excellent training and hasn't had to "teach himself" anything too crazy. Very rarely is the guy outside of the warm cushy center of the envelope however, and this has ramifications for "saving the day" at the last second.
Strengths - Procedural Discipline, Crew Resource Management, Complex Airplane Knowledge
Weaknesses - Less "Hands On" experience, Not a lot of emergency or SHTF experience, Limited "out of the box" thinking available.
Perhaps that's why we're such loud mouths about the transition being a non-issue.
Not to go all out and throw on the AMF cheerleader outfit, but the guys that leave here know what the hell they're doing. I don't know a single person that's left here that has had trouble transferring into any other operation under the sun. Which is why I'm very fast to speak against the jet/glass/fms requirements. Because it really is a BS arguement after working at a place like this. How many ex-AMF guys have you seen struggle @Polar742? Not that Atlas/Polar has ever hired them in the first place...
I can see this. However it seems like a generational issue. The generation coming in has been drowned in technology in comparison.Absolutely true. Same can be said for the 744 & 748.
However, to people that say had 10,000 hours in Metros and maybe another 5,000 in a J31 and had 2500+ in 210s, 310's and Barons prior to that, the E145 in the 90's was a huge transition. From no automation to integrated glass was huge. From straight wing to (kinda) swept wing was huge. And the E145 is EXTREMELY forgiving for a swept wing machine.
Some folks transitioning to the 744/748 from the classic had the same issues, as they had to relearn how to get the right information at the right time to manage the aircraft.
Guys that are luddites really had their hands full learning to manage a logic-driven aircraft, and reprioritizing what is important to look at and when, especially during abnormal operations.
I can see this. However it seems like a generational issue. The generation coming in has been drowned in technology in comparison.
I don't think that it can simply be summarized as a generational issue. I've seen old and young folks fail gauges to glass, glass to gauges, and glass to glass.
I think you've really missed the mark here. Your version of a jet pilot is a cartoon.