Great Lakes faces shortage of pilots!
- Thread starter CRJDriver
- Start date
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
I've uh, quite a bit more than that, and if Dough's people are staking out my house, they're being awfully quiet about it. I'd say it's more like this chick doesn't know what she's talking about.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Yeah, that is such a ghetto solution to this problem, I'd be shocked if it wern't Great Lakes.
DenverPilot8
Well-Known Member
And raise the collective average from what to what? Dismal to Poor? When you are talking about 25k (most regional first year FOs) in the context of even remotely being good or deserving of a trained professional who has invested thousands of dollars and years of time it becomes pointless to talk about how pathetic the pay at Lakes is however true. I know the reason people go there is because of the upgrade time which historically has been 1 year or less. The upgrade at Eagle was pushing 10 years (even though its come down) When you think about sitting right seat for 10 years that "better" pay seems even less significant i think. It's a problem industry wide. I would caution anyone from thinking they are better because they get paid 25k instead of 16k.
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
That number of upside down epaulettes all at once might shatter the space/time continuum.
HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
Pfft you guys are crazy.
pete2800
'Member?
I do not think I am better due to being paid more than a Lakes pilot. Quite the opposite, in fact. One reason I hope to see Lakes disappear is the fact that I have complete confidence that their pilots are more than capable of flying whatever aircraft is put in front of them next, for better pay rates.
And yes, raise the average from dismal to poor. Improvement is improvement. Upgrade at Eagle was 10 years? Upgrade at my company is pushing 13. A one-year upgrade isn't worth much if after you upgrade, you continue to sit right seat due to the fact that your company can't find any FO's to hire. There are multiple other companies who have reasonably short upgrade times.
In any case, EAS is a drain on the federal budget. I'd support the elimination of it entirely.
GypsyPilot
Mohawk Town
The regionals definitely have some issues, I don't disagree. But so does pretty much every other entry level aviation job. I've flown entry level 135, and while it paid a little more the first year, it was very inadequate in many other ways. Paying your dues in aviation just sucks, unless you're extremely lucky. But there really aren't many ways around it. I attempted to avoid the crappy dues paying years, and really I would have been a lot better off just going to a decent regional sooner than I did.
That being said, Lakes is bloody awful. There are numerous regional airlines that pay FOs considerably more than Lakes CAs.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Well, in my experience most professional pilots can fly an ILS. What lakes pilots have demonstrated to me is extremely poor decision making and either a desire or having no problem with stabbing someone in the back for personal gain.
I'm much more concerned with the latter two than their ability to fly the easiest tprop series ever created, with 2 pilots non the less.
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
As long as EAS exists, so too will this firm.
I don't really see them as making max profit. I see them as doing a dance of minimum revenues and minimum costs to squeeze out a profit. I suspect they are reluctant to raise pay because they feel they cannot be profitable otherwise. All the EAS contracts were won under a competitive bid.
The obvious solution is to switch types to something cheaper to operate (say PC-12 or 208). The same EAS regulation that subsidizes Lakes in some cases also specifies that the aircraft have greater than 15 seats. Doh!
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Nope- those of you reading this quote in shock- you are not alone. Being paid 25k is 9 thousand more than 16k and it means you can pay your bills and (likely) save some of your paycheck. I don't know about anyone being better than another person, but if making 16k as a first year airline pilot sounds a hell of a lot worse than 25k, you aren't alone.
Denver is obviously less concerned about money than some of us reading this in utter amazement. Don't fool yourself, the ONLY thing that will raise pilot pay is a lack of pilots, because pilots will pay to fly. Keep in mind that 16k for the Lakes guy is a whole 32k (net) more than the Gulfstreamers got paying for their job. Someone feel free to correct me, but 16K only got you 6 months of employment?
DenverPilot8
Well-Known Member
And here I read your complete lack of understanding of my point in "utter amazement". Who is paying what bills on 25k GROSS pay exactly? to say you can save money on that is laughable at best. Yes there are those outliers that live with their parents or have a spouse that make money but by in large most first year pilots i know defer their school loans (while incurring major amounts of interest) live in a crash pad and still barley "pay their bills". My point was really that Lakes gets used so often in lowering the bar in regional pay and I'm not arguing that they don't have an effect. But its seems ridiculous to me when people talk about how well their "decent" regional pays when its in the range of 22k-25k per year starting out. What a joke. Lakes flies 16 seat turbo prop airplanes on EAS contracts. They are not the comparison people should be making. I'm working for a "decent" regional and took home 18k the first year including perdium. I can tell you that I was not on the internet talking about how good my regional was paying me compared to Lakes. Do I think its ridiculous what they get paid and what people are willing to work for? of course. But I think the exact same thing at my regional...myself included.
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USMCmech
Well-Known Member
We all wish that the aviation gods would wave their magic wands and starting pay at the regionals would bump up to 45K/year. However, since we all live in the real world this process will take time.
No one believes that 25K is anywhere near what a FO should be making after investing the time and money to be trained and gain the experience required to be an airline pilot. However the impending death of one of the bottom feeders IS a first step in the right direction.
It will take at least a decade to break the old low paying regional business model, but this is progress.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Word is their management thinks companies like RAH and XJET are majors.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
There's times I'm lost, and then times I'm just lost lost.
Firstly I paid my bills on 25k gross, and I didn't get any damn per diem except on about 8 trips the whole year. I can't even imagine trying to make anything work at 16k, I'm not that imaginative. I saved money too. This was '07, and I didn't exit college with anything near $120k in debt, I also wasn't paying any 6% interest rate. There may be a generation gap here, but even if there was the guy with 25k is making 9 grand more. Don't pretend his life isn't easier.
I may be creeping into "back in my days" but with a roomate and living within your means, bringing a lunch (which I really didn't), and not buying much booze, I was able to keep my savings intact and build on. No idea what your budget looked like but as a single male, but 25k vs 16k in 2007 would have been a PAINFUL difference. Colgan had no reserve at the time, and I was able to pick up as much time as I wanted because our turnover rate was high.
Secondly I can get behind some of this reasoning below
But a lecture on people judging each other on the internet? Let's get serious here, this discussion is about a wage for a pilot, not how we treat each other. You are bemoaning 25K as a starting pay while admitting you made 18K and think it's crap. I got paid crap at Colgan and worked for every dime and I left. No union, no unity, no hope, and no respect from management. They had hundreds ready to replace me and every other guy that left. If pilots spend $120K learning to fly that's their problem. The economics of everyone starting school after '03 were insane in retrospect, unless you found a cheap place to do it at while getting that four year degree finished off (online or whatever). I've also helped those same pilots out with differals and as long as they didn't blow all their money at the bar they were fine too with our payscale. FO at Mesaba made more than a checkairman at Mistakes and it was easy to compare because I've hauled one back and forth to DEN for years.
Nat E. Dred
Well-Known Member
An 18-month non-prorated training contract.
