A theory

[Boris Badenov]

It's mostly timing and luck. I can't help but snarf at the dudes who wound up at a major at 26 and think their superior capabilites were the primary cause. Certainly, you can't be a joker and move up the ladder with no bumps. But you can most assuredly be NOT a joker and still NOT move up with no bumps. I reckon I've batted about .500. Never been unemployed for long, and of all the companies I've flown planes for (but it's a long list, sadly), only one made me want to go postal, and the rest were largely people with whom I'm proud to have been associated.

I know to an absolute certainty that there were some men and women I flew with long ago who've done "better" and probably a fair number of others who've done "worse". Here's the thing: With the rare exception, they were all just as good at operating aviation appliances as I was. Some of them were probably better.

Very little of this game is about "virtue" or "ability", in the main. If I could point to one factor that seems to separate the "happy" from the "un-", it's resilience and the ability to find the good in what they do have.

So, then, maybe being a plumber on FRED isn't so bad? I mean, yeah, you're not the Yoke Actuator, but like, how much does anyone who's grabbed the brass ring actually FLY anyway? The plumbers are there for all the fun stuff...all the stuff that happens in the cockpit, and more importantly, the other stuff, too. I'm not telling you not to "chase your dreams". If pumping the yoke and trying to get that greaser is where you draw value and meaning in your life, have at it. But I do suggest that you (and everyone else) try to keep their "dreams" in some sort of rational perspective.

You are not your job description. And trying to be your job description does not, from my admittedly unscientific inquiry, seem to lead to a great deal of human freedom and/or happiness. TIFWIW.

 

[rwgb1984]

Unfortunately, I think you "get it". You shouldn't have gotten yourself into that much debt at the entry level of a flying career. Now at 32 you have to go into the AFRC to plumb on Fred to make ends meet. Unless you are doing it just serve your country, which is admirable, plumbing on Fred is a dead end job that doesn't transfer over to the civilian sector anymore. So you are paying $658 a month to service a debt that is bringing NOTHING of value to you.

Don't go and start the "woe is me" banter about the new ATP ruling "screwing" you. It what it should have been all along. Back in the 80s, you have to have 2500TT with 500-1000 multi just to get a right seat commuter job in a freaking Metro, Bandit or other 15-19 seat commuter prop. Don't start with the entitlement that "I went to ATP, have a degree from Riddle and I'm in debt up to me eyeballs and I have 750TT so I'm deserving of a flying job at the commuters". Not saying that you are, but it sounds like from you post that you are spring loaded to go there.

When I was 32 I was a four year Captain at my first major airline. I didn't make the mistake of getting into debt for a flight school or getting and expensive degree that is worthless in the real world. I started flying professionally at 20 and worked my way up and made it to the majors by age 26.

Best of luck and a sincere thanks for your military service.

I hope what I'm about to say doesn't come across as "entitled justification." But I think that there is also a big difference in the way the world is today than it was back then. I will be the first to admit that the debt I incurred as a result of school and flight training was not a good idea. And I will also be the first to say that the day that bill goes in to repayment is going to bring that reality home in the most tangible way possible. But I made the decision, mostly, because I was enamored with the dream of flying for a living. Did I mention that I have been flying for 3 years and still haven't managed to complete my commercial ticket??

I also know that even if I never went into debt for flying I would have for my degree. And that reality is true for a lot of folks today. The cost of education today is exponentially higher. School debt has become the norm. And are there folks who can get through it without borrowing? Absolutely. But there are also those who can't. The variables are myriad when comparing individuals.

I guess to make my point, whining and being entitled is one thing (and I agree with you by the way.) But the game has changed across the board and I think that is something to also be aware of.

 

[Boris Badenov]

But the game has changed across the board and I think that is something to also be aware of.

Yeah, it's sort of like our moneyed elite screaming to heaven and anyone who will listen that home ownership is an investment in the future, etc etc, lending the suckers money to "buy" houses, then foreclosing on said houses, taking billions from the suckers' "government", and looking for more suckers to which to "sell" the houses they just basically stole. Meanwhile, the printing presses have been shut down because the amount of money we're printing can't actually be physically printed.

If you believe that there's a level playing field, one rather suspects that you're on the high side of the (real) hill.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

If you want an aviation career, you need to fly. It's that simple.

We all make choices that preclude options. The choices you've made and continue to make might preclude an aviation career.

You have a degree and military life agrees with you. Have you considered a commission? Even with waivers, you are beyond eligibility for a pilot slot, but there are other options.

If you want an aviation career, you and your wife need to come up with a plan. It appears that pursuing a life in the reserves might be a "treading water" position.

Not to beat you up, but for the benefit of any youngsters or parents, I will relate what is possible. Last month, we hired a young pilot for our operation. His story was quite impressive. He paid his own way through college, working at UPS and living at home. He started at a community college and transferred to a state school where he finished his engineering degree with less than $10K in student loan debt.

He got a pretty average engineering job and within a few years, he had his CFI by age 24, debt-free. I think he will go far in aviation, but he has a pretty strong backup plan.

Good luck. Life and aviation are tough gigs.

 

[TwoTwoLeft]

Maybe sell my guns?

I wouldn't do that unless you absolutely had to.Then you'll just be a bitter CFI who sold his guns and cant go shooting. If you have some nice collectables that you might possibly want to hand down to your kids some day, that kind of stuff is worth much more than money. Who knows? The way things are going you might not be able to buy any later...

Lots of good advice here. Go get instrument current. That should be priority #1 if you want to get back into flying.

HA! At least you got a call from Surf Air!

 

[Rudabega]

Go to Alaska, even low time jobs pay well. You can get a job with a VFR 135 company. Live in company housing and pay off your debt while landing on gravel strips.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

You are a bit light on hours, but your military status might provide you with a chance to get on with a ME defense contractor.

 

[Boris Badenov]

You are a bit light on hours, but your military status might provide you with a chance to get on with a ME defense contractor.

From what I understand, prior service and particularly a clearance is a huge plus with these ops...more important than logbook numbers is the rumor...

 

[TallFlyer]

From my perspective, it seems like if you want to fly then the C-5 might be a bad idea. At the same time it could end up being a pretty secure position, ultimately you and your fiance could aim for the same duty station, and there are worse things than a military retirement.

If you're looking to build some hours rather quickly, an aerial survey gig could be a good thing. My understanding of Aperture suggests that while you'd be home frequently those guys don't fly a lot of hours per year. The Picto contractors will fly a lot more, but you won't see home for 7-8 months.

Rudabega's suggestion of Alaska is a good one, and ASpilot2be has got a pretty good deal going on up there with a good company.

And totally anecdotal, but one of my classmates at my new regional gig is a 44 year old guard dude, a boom on a -135. He's got about 2,000 hours mostly acquired from CAP. Good guy.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

I can't get my head around how reserve service gets you closer to where you want to be. It sounds like it almost precludes anything other than local CFI work. I asked before, is a commission an option? If you end up being career military, you'd be money ahead as an officer.

 

[TallFlyer]

I can't get my head around how reserve service gets you closer to where you want to be. It sounds like it almost precludes anything other than local CFI work. I asked before, is a commission an option? If you end up being career military, you'd be money ahead as an officer.

I suspect it's the fastest route for the OP to an aircraft cockpit, albeit not a window seat.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

I suspect it's the fastest route for the OP to an aircraft cockpit, albeit not a window seat.

That's my concern. Getting in the cockpit as a reservist, or even active, might be the worst path to a window seat. If I recall correctly, the Navy used to waive up to 32 for pilots and NFO's with prior service. I'm not sure about the Air Force.

 

[BravoHotel]

Thank you everyone for the plethora of information. There are several workable options here. To my understanding I am too old for a commission, in a flying status. I like the CAP idea, that would get my flying again and probably be a good networking tool. I took a look at the gun safe I am kinda feeling Two two left, only sell those if I absolutely have to, especially in the state of California.

The AFR and FRED. This developed from a couple of friends who are Herc FEs one on slicks and the other a rescue bird. The slick FE is now a 1900 Captain up in AK as a civilian I met the guy at ATP. I was offered a position at my former unit on the Herc as an FE but it very far from where I live, so I opted for Travis and FRED which is right down the road.

The training pipeline for FRED will be about 18 months to get mission qualified, six months at Kelly AFB in TX and a year at home station at Travis. I'll be on active duty orders starting in October(ish). That will alleviate a lot of the short term woes, plus they gave me a fairly nice bonus of 15K. The Reserve pilots I will be working with I bet are also a good source for networking, etc.

There were a few mentions of Aperture Aviation. I am not sure if I burnt that bridge or not. In early 2010 I was selected to attend training, but washed out because of lack of IFR proficiency. I was a jump pilot previously and have not flown instruments since ATP in late 2008.

I think my best flight strategy remains get and stay current build some flight hours, do what drunkenbeagle suggested and get that CFI as it would really open up doors in the civilian market. Now the tough part is taking action to get there.

 

[TallFlyer]

A short aside here, but for us mere civilians can you AF guys break down the time commitments required of the Reserves vs the Guard? And by that I mean not who long your service is, but the day to day lifestyle and duties.

 

[ElihuSmails]

I understand your situation. Just had to leave a flying job due to a move and a simultaneous mobilization which starts in 2 days. Your reserve unit will be an invaluable networking tool, as well as a good security net while you try to jump start a career. Agree that CAP can be a good way to get some cheap/free flying. Looks like Travis also has an aero club - assuming they've survived sequestration! That could be a cheap way to get the CFI and stay on to instruct while you're still AD.

 

[TC_ABM]

A short aside here, but for us mere civilians can you AF guys break down the time commitments required of the Reserves vs the Guard? And by that I mean not who long your service is, but the day to day lifestyle and duties.

The answer to this question is that it depends on a lot of factors, to include experience levels in the mission and in the aircraft, unit mission, and one's training status among many other things. Overall, flying positions tend to more than one weekend a month and two weeks a year.

Best bet is to pick a guard flying unit and a reserve flying unit that fly the same aircraft in similar mission sets and ask them your question.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

From what I understand, prior service and particularly a clearance is a huge plus with these ops...more important than logbook numbers is the rumor...

No rumor. Prior service, clearances, and a chunk of quality time will get you a consideration. 250 PIC hours of BeechMobile would put you in the game. The trick is to network past the head-hunters and HR departments.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

I was at the time, 2008. Now I have an Air Force commitment and a family to think about.

I think that's exactly it. Flying professionally isn't just a job, but a lifestyle. There are some things can anchor you down and create a hell of a barrier for entry.

The biggest one is probably finances. I have a few friends from college who are in the same boat. A ton of debt for flying, plus debt from a few other things and now taking an entry level job in the industry isn't a reasonable option. One is now working construction and the other is in tech support over the phone.

Another is family. Now I can't stand the guys who say "pfft, I'm not going to settle down with anyone until I'm established in my career." I love my job (hate my company, but that's for a different thread) but I love my family (wife and dogs) a ton more. If I ever had to make a choice it would be a no brainer. I get more life fulfillment out of a week of being at home with my wife than I will with an entire career of flying airplanes. All that being said, if you end up with a family situation that makes moving or commuting to a job impossible, you're going to be up a creek. I was really lucky, when I met my wife I was commuting to short call reserve on first year pay. Doesn't get much worse than that. She understood from the very beginning what this would be like. But I understand not everybody can be so lucky.

Some people also seem to think that entry level jobs are below them and think they belong left seat of a 747 from day one. Instead of looking at entry level jobs as valuable experience, they view them as hours in the logbook. Some have their minds made up that they will hate instructing before they even start, then spend a year or two just phoning it in. But in a lot of cases they sit around in a crappy situation complaining that they just can't get a break. I think in most cases its tunnel vision. They focus a little bit too much on the short term sacrifice and forget about the long term gain by taking jobs that may be a bit challenging. Putting in a year or two in a situation that might not be that much fun can lead to a lot of long term gain. Especially a lot more than doing nothing and wondering why your situation isn't changing.

Some people get tied to a certain location and are stuck having to look for an aviation related job that is local to them or commutable. That's really tough because in many parts of this country there just aren't any. Buy buying a house last year I have more or less limited my career progressions to part 121 airlines.

None of these were supposed to be talking about you personally, but rather point out that this industry is really a lifestyle choice, not just a job. If a plumber gets laid off, they can just look for jobs at other plumbing companies in the area they live. We don't always have that luxury. Not like any other job out there.

 

[ozziecat35]

No rumor. Prior service, clearances, and a chunk of quality time will get you a consideration. 250 PIC hours of BeechMobile would put you in the game. The trick is to network past the head-hunters and HR departments.

That's the hard part, the Beech time. I have the military time, about a week away from a clearance, CMEL/CSEL, 100 ME, but only 226 TT.

If anyone knows a guy, let me know!

 

[bunk22]

This is not a knock to the OP but I have no idea as to why folks get into so much debt with schools like ERAU. I think the school must do a good job at recruiting. I have a friend who went to a different school and though he didn't take a loan out, he used all of an inheritance and ran out of money before finishing. As I went through Regional training recently, so many dudes I spoke with were in big debt and about to make pennies for pay.

Good luck to you though, I hope you figure it out.